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I think it was indicated that as long as you don’t try to sell it then what you do in the privacy of your own home is not illegal. For instance, you could have a SHRINE to the Windstone Copperplate Griffin- 5 different replicas you’ve painted and 500 pictures or drawing and that is OKAY- very very strange, but okay- HOWEVER, if you try to SELL your copies or drawings of the copperplate you are infringing and the company/Jennifer is protected.
mimitrek wrote:skigod377 wrote:Ok, here is a question to put us back on topic; Why isn’t there a gallery pic for the copperplate? I just breezed right by it the first time.
You mean besides this one?
I mean on the actual Ebay auction, there is no gallery pic. Sorry… 😳 when you sell, putting up a pic instead of a little green camera is called the “Gallery Option.”
That’s what I figured, Cheryl. I won’t copy it once, let alone five times, just because it’s not really colorful enough for my taste. There seem to be lots of brownisch griffins around, and the Windstone painters make the best ones so I don’t want to have to compare. But I still wonder what other folks will be willing to pay for it.
I noticed that, which is probably why I didn’t notice it earlier today. *was dumb and sat in front of the computer a lot today* Sometimes if things don’t have gallery pics my brain doesn’t even register them. XD
Nam’s griffs definatly deserve shiny gallery pics. 😀
Greater Basilisk wrote:skigod377 wrote:Greater Basilisk wrote:9 pages in 2 days? I’d say so. It’s bound to get back on track when the auction’s over, though.
Isn’t that, like, 6days, 1hr, and 3 min away?
Well, whatever we’ve got to discuss can be just as well discussed here as in a another thread. I don’t think there’ll be a problem keeping this alive that long, do you? 🙂
6 days? I dunno… The only threads that have really survived are the Show your Windstones, and Ebay fakes… This could be a challenge…
skigod377 wrote:mimitrek wrote:skigod377 wrote:Ok, here is a question to put us back on topic; Why isn’t there a gallery pic for the copperplate? I just breezed right by it the first time.
You mean besides this one?
I mean on the actual Ebay auction, there is no gallery pic. Sorry… 😳 when you sell, putting up a pic instead of a little green camera is called the “Gallery Option.”
Learn something new every day… 🙂 Actually, I was wondering the same thing…
CherylKaufman wrote:I think it was indicated that as long as you don’t try to sell it then what you do in the privacy of your own home is not illegal. For instance, you could have a SHRINE to the Windstone Copperplate Griffin- 5 different replicas you’ve painted and 500 pictures or drawing and that is OKAY- very very strange, but okay- HOWEVER, if you try to SELL your copies or drawings of the copperplate you are infringing and the company/Jennifer is protected.
It’s still technically illegal to make a copy even for personal use, but nobody ever goes after people who do. For one you can’t find them, as they’re just squirredl away in homes, and for another, it’s just not good PR to go after fans who make crazy shrines. And the Windstone folks are nicer than that, I think.
I am so late to this post but I’ll put in my cents, just the same. Personally, I see the PYOs and being worth more than the production Windstones, just based off the fact that they are all hand-made original works of art done on a high end quality sculpt. You can’t put a price on that. I am just itching to see Melody post one of her own OOAKs.
What Nam said earlier was so correct…that people see a plumber and willingly charge $400 for a 2 hour service but wouldn’t think of it for a painter. That’s completely true in so many ways, but people see these things differently, and art is not always looked up to in the least. In fact, most people see my work as well…just a hobby type of thing not to be taken seriously because, while I work full-time at art I don’t make minimum wage on everything I do…therefore it’s not worthwhile. I personally put in about 20 hours per griffin, give or take. I know my Kesterl griffin took the longest. Good quality work takes time no matter the job, so it always irks me to no end when people scoff at my prices. I have been told by more than one person that my prices for custom paint jobs were unreasonable…even after telling them that the sculpts alone cost $40 and are factored into the price of say, a $125 winged wolf. That’s only around $60-70 profit spread out over 13+ hours. Just do the math…it’s barely minimum wage! But people honestly have gotten pissed off I’d dare charge so much. This is another reason I quit selling commissions over Ebay as well…folks just bought for opening bid on my last 3+ auctions, whereas they will pay more for a finished sculpture. Go figure. I don’t know why that is but it’s true for almost everyone I’ve seen selling on there.
Nam uses a lot of high-end paints too, as well as putting in her time…and on top of that the pieces are finished with Windstone’s sealants and made more official because Windstone is selling them. But I do have to say that no matter what the final price goes for, it beats out a machine-painted sculpture of any kind hands-down and no matter what it goes for, it’s a deal because it’s a one of a kind hand-done thing. It’s just so much more personal, and you can’t put a price on that really.
And for anyone who is reading this that did have a huge issue with my prices…I hope you rethink that your $75 jeans make a “great” deal and worth every penny. Someone sitting there painstakingly painting a sculpture by hand with a round brush with only a dozen hairs on it is worth far more than those jeans; and how dare you complain about someone wanting a decent minimum wage. Nobody works for free. You want quality jeans, so want quality in your art…unless you dig the whole overseas sweat-shop thing.
I’m sorry, this got a little heated. I’m just really annoyed with some things people said about my winged wolf auction and my commission prices. I wish Nam and Windstone the best of luck, and also luck to the bidders, who understand true quality worksmanship.
I hope you get a good price on your wolf, Water, because he’s worth of every penny of at least $200. If I bought painted PYOs I’d go for this one.
I’m sorry to hear some people don’t calculate the comparison prices of artistic labor and ordinary household fix-ups that a brother or husband ought to be able to do.:) I hope the person who buys the wolf appreciates the work that went into him.
The dragons are painted by hand and meticulously sculpted too, so they’re not that different from the PYOs in that regard. The bottom line is left up to the buyer – if she wants to pay $450 for a $30 sculpt, 25 or so hours of work, the expensive paints and Nam’s name as a quality guarantee, that entirely up to her and great for Windstone.Yes, and I am thrilled to have people on this forum who know quality and love the work put in and do try their hand at their own as well…because it gives you a whole new outlook and respect both for the sculpt and also the other painters. The problem I am seeing is most of the bidders on these things are us forum members and not so much “outsiders.” I just want other people to know what it takes to do these things, or any art in general. I do tend to get defensive to a high degree on this mostly because I face it a lot. I just want people to realize that hey, these are one of a kind things, great quality, and worth the price, whether they are bidding or not, you know? I don’t know if you other artists get bad emails like I have done before or not but people are pretty blunt with me, and I in turn must be blunt with them. One example…someone wanted to hire me to do their children’s books…a small-time publisher who wanted me as their numero uno artist…but they got angry when I said I cost about a grand per book. They said I shouldn’t be worth any more than $500, and that THAT was pushing it because computers “do all the work for me” regardless of when I told them everything was drawn and colored by hand, page by page, and each page took yadda yadda hours and I worked with such-and-such materials. They flat out did not care and said I was crazy for doing things that way! Unbelieveable. But I don’t want to turn this into a “me” post. I just want to say, for those who are reading this who are not forum members yet and who are lurking around and choking on price tags for Windstones, PYO or not, hey…know the quality that’s going into this. You want to know what goes into a car before you buy it…so know your art and your artists.
They didn’t want to give you more than $500? What do they think you live off of? 😯
I kind of doubt my PYOs will ever make it to E-Bay because shipping is a horror, but with Ski’s help on a little arrangement we’re working on, who knows. Thanks for the warning, Water.
People who choke on the price tags of quality work should run to Walmart and help build the Chinese commerce empire. I, for one, go out of my way to pay more for things produced in Europe and the States. Generally, if it’s made in China or any crap-producing country like that, I just go without. That’s why I collect Windstone! 😀Needless to say I did not take that job. The unfortunate part of it was I lost a client or two along the way because the publisher told them they needn’t pay illustrators that much money. I mean come on people, a book takes a couple months of labor. You can’t do them overnight and when you’re making it specifically for a client of the characters they want and detail they want…well, it’s exhausting deals with some people. Art will always be, for some people, just something they can always get cheaper somewhere else, which is why artists get the short end of the stick so much and have to work twice as hard for equal pay. That’s why we should all be happy that Windstone has and continues to survive as an artistic endeavor, because after 9/11 and the economy that followed, everything changed. I’m glad Windstone is still alive even though many of it’s distributers folded. It’s up to us collectors and people who support Windstone to keep it alive, and suport fellow artists as well whenever we can.
You’ve got that right. I’m sure this forum is a big help in supporting Windstone, because as a whole lot of people can testify, spending on Windstones goes up as you meet like-minded people. I probably wouldn’t have two-thirds of my collection now if I hadn’t run across this community. Smart move on Windstone’s part.
I run into that a lot myself. People are used to buying costumes at Costco, or the Halloween superstore, and then they see something of mine, and ask me how much one like that would be, and are shocked at the price, despite the fact that I am very nearly the cheapest actual professional mascot/fursuit maker I know of. I sometimes am tempted to send them to Lance Ikegawa, who does Hollywood quality mascot suits that start at $10,000 each. That’d learn ’em!
People are just so used to the price of mass-produced that they have no idea what something hand made is worth.
I had a big argument with somebody over my plush animals because of that. He told me that he thought I had a “great scam” going, charging $25 for a 12″ plush. (6″ of it is tail, so they’re not what I’d call “cheap” exactly, but they’re not THAT expensive!) I spent the better part of an hour, but just could not convince him that I wasn’t making mad profit on those things. After all, you can get something like that for $5 at WalMart, right?
Quote:. They said I shouldn’t be worth any more than $500, and that THAT was pushing it because computers “do all the work for me” regardless of when I told them everything was drawn and colored by hand, page by page, and each page took yadda yadda hours and I worked with such-and-such materials.
Ohhhhh I am familiar with THAT line of thinking. I did a series of digital paintings for my art program about two years ago, using my tablet and Photoshop/Painter, each of the 6 paintings easily took me 15-20 hours and people had the nerve to tell me that the computer program “did all the work for me” so they weren’t as good as “normal” paintings.
Even my friends, who hear me talk about art all the time, they don’t really think about the costs until they commission me for something. Recently, a friend asked me to do an artwork that involved twelve figures and she wanted it to be a combination of lineart and digital colouring. When I told her that it would cost her $200 for something that complicated, she was stunned. But to draw twelve complex figures, then scan them and resize them to fit the format she wanted, THEN colour them, THEN tweak the colouring to her liking, THEN get it printed professionally, it took me a long time and costs money for the printing! LOL She said something like “But your online store, everything on there is under 50 bucks mostly!” and I had to explain “Well, a lot of that stuff was done for school, not commissioned specfically for someone – that’s really different.” And that was something that didn’t require any expensive real-life materials! LOL
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