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Greater Basilisk wrote:
I wonder how John could shut that seller down? Artman is constantly selling that trash.
We will. Some I just have Ebay remove but guys like this we treat a little differently.
Algy wrote:While not a sculptural fake, it’s art theft!
Though, trying to read the signature of the artist from the crappy image will be a task, I guess it would still be best to get this image theif off eBay.
John’s email escapes my exhausted brain… any helpers?
And thanks for this one. I like it! But they aren’t gonna be happy.
ruffian wrote:totally rip offs, but I can not send them to john, work computer could someone please pass them along?
Thanks I am now in contact with them. Flea market stuff.
SPark wrote:skigod377 wrote:Oh my! I was thinking of bumper stickers, too! More along the lines of free advertising… “I love my Windstone dragon” or just a Windstoneeditions.com sticker…My dragon can beat up your dragon… etc etc…
“My dragon could eat your honor student.”
This seems to be going in the right direction. I will talk to Nam about having her coordinate a bumper sticker effort. Let’s keep this thread alive.
ladybrooklyn wrote:Well… I hate to keep this going… I know it’s a heated debate… but…
When Breyer started out in 1950 or so… they had no idea how the “hobby” of collecting “toy” model horses would take off. Before they knew it they had a nice community of collectors growing… avid collectors… and soon those collectors began to make changes to their model horses.
You have identified some significant differences between the Breyer horse situation and ours. Most important is that Windstone pieces started life as collectables and Breyers were marketed as toys. The value of the Windstone line will not necessarily be increased with the marketing of repainted pieces as was the case with Breyer. Our own custom pieces from the Windstone factory do revalue the line upwards, but I am not so sure that would be the case with many “loving hands at home” flooding Ebay with their work.
This is why we created the PYO pieces. They are a concept that will not devalue the line and, if all goes well, is intended to create an authorized arena for custom work.
I will restate the mold issue. You really can’t make a latex mold of a Breyer horse and reproduce anything like the original. We have a different set of issues.
Nambroth wrote:Owch- I’m not going to touch this one again and will leave any further comment to Melody & John.
I will try to work through this again.
First, we have a photo record of all the custom and odd pieces we sell. We don’t have a way to identify repainted pieces which is a potential problem for us, and maybe for the sellers.
Second, I believe Breyer horses are hard to reproduce because of the type of plastic they are cast from and the type of molds required. Windstone pieces are easier to knock off so we end up chasing after smaller infringers. This is expensive and the return is not as great as suing a company that can afford to knock off a Breyer horse.
Third, the issue of what is and is not legal in the repainting of pieces is still a moving target. The paint schemes of Windstone pieces are protected by copyright and noticed by our copyright mark which covers both the sculpture and the paint. When you think about it, repainting of the pieces creates a misdesignation of copyright and, as a dual notice is not allowed (would be in itself confusing), creates confusion of origin and ownership. I think that a lot of these issues have not yet been tested in court, but that doesn’t make them legal.
Fourth, I don’t think that it is any body’s business to be speculating in a public forum about Jennifer’s relation to Windstone and if I were her I would feel that it is rather invasive of my privacy. For that reason I cannot comment further except to say that, so far, she is the only figurine painter other than Melody who is a Windstone artist. She is also a real jewel, who truly takes the interests of Windstone to heart and who’s talents and professionalism we deeply admire.
Fifth, if it wasn’t for all of you enthusiastic collectors I think we may well have voted to just pack it in and do something else. The forum has been a great way to connect and will surely give us new directions to pursue to revitalize the business. It has been an interesting social experiment as well and I don’t want to see it edited to death or stifled in any way so please feel free to get back to me with your comments on what I have missed addressing.
Last, we have had a constant, ongoing discussion as to how we can involve the collectors in Windstone without shooting at our feet and we really do appreciate your input. Just respect the fact that this is new territory for all of us and there are no easy answers to many of your, and our, concerns.
dragonessjade wrote:Yes, we want pics…of course after you are done eating.. But maybe take a pic before you start. hehe
Wow, that was no ordinary cake! How, from Utah, did you ever find the best bakery in L.A.?
Nambroth wrote:Well I just purchased 7 1oz and 2 4oz containers of Golden paint and one container of GAC 100. That’s 15 oz of paint. $80 (with shipping)! Let it never be said I don’t use quality materials on these! 😆 Really though, for what I got, it was less than retail. Most of the time these 1oz bottles are $7+/ea depending on the series number. My paint alone last time I got it cost well over $150. I can’t even fathom how much the Factory spends on paint. Thousands of dollars, I’m sure. 😯
Much of the paint we use is now well over $250 per gallon, wholesale.
whippetluv wrote:Arlla wrote:What about this?? This can’t be official…
http://cgi.ebay.com/Windstone-Dragons-1-Light-Switch-or-1-outlet-Cover_W0QQitemZ120096969264QQcategoryZ20581QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Holy crap! That is definatly a theft!!!I’m on it. Thanks guys. The winged lion is borderline. I will have to get one and really compare them.
Nambroth wrote:Greater Basilisk wrote:I think Windstone will have to add that notice to the papers in the PYO boxes, since a lot of people – like me – order by phone. That way they can point to a written warning and a copyist can’t plead ignorance.
Besides, I think that even if that lady isn’t a forum member, she might consider the possibility of Windstone color schemes being protected. I’d think that in the sue-happy American society people would have a developed a better sense of what’s theirs and what’s not.They used to do this with the first PYO griffins… did they stop? (I honestly don’t know since I don’t buy ’em O_o)
I too can sympathize with folks that just don’t know better. It just seems in this case that he/she knew because of the blurb about ‘changing it a little’ for copyright reasons. BUT! Again I do know what it’s like not to know ‘the rules’ so to speak. Windstone’ isn’t “out to get” anyone though so usually all it takes is a letter to the person in question to explain how things are. They are not trying to punish folks about this, the truth is that most people are not aware of how protected Windstones are (I know I didn’t until I started working with them!). I think some sort of notice/agreement on the order page and on future Windstone auctions for PYOs would help. Something to the extent of ‘by purchasing this product you agree that you recognize that Windstones are protected (insert legal wording here). This will cover the seller from saying ‘I didn’t know’ and will cover Windstone in case they find someone else doing it. 🙂
Sorry I can’t follow up on this untill we get back in town, but we are making changes to better inform painters of the laws. I think I delt with this particular auction gently enough that we won’t loose an enthusiast. The auction should be taken down soon.
We are putting up an entry page to explain the laws as you go into the figuine side of the site (this afternoon?). Check it out and spread the word that all should read it.dragonessjade wrote:Hi Melody…I hope I am not repeating these questions.
I was wondering how you came up with the name: Windstone Editions.
Also I was wondering what happens if someone uses it as a screen name or something like that. Would that be considered a copyright infringment?
Just became aware of this. Use of Windstone or Windstone Editions is a Trademark infringement. Copying our decoration style is a violation of fair trade law and maybe trademark if it can cause confusion. This auction does all of the above and I will ask them to take it down and stop using our name. By the way, we have included the use of gold trim as we apply it to scales and wing edges in our claims in lawsuits. That and patterns of color dots are distinctive features of Windstone Dragons which we wish to protect so please refrain from any copying of Windstone painting when you paint these guys. We will make this more clear to future buyer/painters.
Thanks for the concern. We depend on all of you to help us police the market but we also realize that we will have to educate those who don’t know what is OK and what is not. And we certainly don’t want to kill the fun everyone is having with these.
Chessapeaka wrote:(My parents are cool, but they suffer from “our children are angels” disease… which they usually will acknowledge, but.. eh… I don’t like having my ego stroked when its not deserved. It’s always made me squeamish.)
I will briefly bring this back on topic, and again back off.
Hey, since they were born, we have tried our best to bring out the worst in our children. If we have failed it’s because they just don’t get it. Probably should have sent them to public school.
Next, if there are any doubts left about the value of home schooling then you need to reread the posts from our voice in Switzerland! All of them.
Finally, as there are too many posts to quote, I will try to add some points to the debate that came to mind.
Since when is the idea of creating a stable internal economy a “radical” idea? Isn’t that a conservative idea? Is a Global Village not a radical idea?
If you have a stable closed economy and create technical advances from which the rest of the world can benefit (and many countries can do that) why can’t you simply give that technology to the remaining countries that need it? I don’t see what, besides world corporate dominance, would prevent the dissemination of technology and information. (This may stick in the anti Socialist craw?).
There is no doubt that the importation of Japanese cars was the turning point for the improvement in the quality of American cars. Which were horrible. (The Japanese learned the art and advantage of quality perfection from the statistician Edwards Deming and other Americans who were sent to Japan after WW2 to get them back on track. They listened and learned while American industry ignored Deming and his cohorts)
What has happened as a result of the flow of cheap goods from China and other countries is that, while non essential goods (electronics and the like) has gotten more affordable, the essentials (food, rents, etc), which cannot be outsourced, have, with the resulting loss in middle income jobs, become relatively expensive and are consuming as high a percentage of our incomes as they ever did (I suspect a much higher percentage but I don’t know the exact numbers). So where is the net gain from the flow of cheap goods? It is enabling Wal-mart and the likes to put Main Street USA out of business, export profits from local communities, lower wages and, you guessed it, put even Windstone on the verge of extinction. And it is burning up the worlds resources of materials and energy at an even faster rate. Global warming? That too.
I’m getting hungry and this seems like a good enough place to quit. Wow, what a thread! Damn smartass homeschoolers!
tfsculptures wrote:well this has been bugging me for a while and i couldn’t sit on it anymore. i was almost going to put this in the ask melody section , but i didn’t want to trouble her with something miniscule like this. anyway, i got a good cat candlelamp on ebay and when it arrived i saw immediately that it had a mis-set marble eye, it wasn’t glued in far enough forward so there is a significant gap that shows even when its not lit, but when it is lit it is unbearably off! ack! theres a big old gap you can see clear through to the yellow glow from the flame behind.
anyway, i didn’t know if other peeps had this problem, if the eye socket was just a little tight for the marble and it happened here n there, of if mine is just “special”. it looks way too bad to be lit, so i either thought i would try to chip it out, breaking the glue, but not the marble, as i have good tools, or just break down and buy a whole new one. id hate to do that though as money is tight and i want to have the $$ for the new pieces.
any suggestions from windstone staff or collectors? i know i should get a pic, but its kinda tricky to really capture on film.This dosen’t look right to me. Call us, send it back, and we will fix it. We can fix the dragon as well or send you a paint pen if you want to do it yourself. We are really careful about what we ship so I am always amazed when something like that gets out.
skigod377 wrote:Nambroth wrote:This is good though! Nothing quite compares to seeing them in person. IF you go to a shop that doesn’t carry them, you should ask them to, really!! I know that doesn’t usually work but even if it works only once it helps Windstone tremendously and you could get a free piece from them out of it! 😀
I have to ask… if I took the PYOs to the crafts shop and they ordered some but then never ordered again, would it still be worth it? I tell you, I would buy them all most likely, but Im so worried I would just be creating alot of paperwork for nothing.
My feeling about “craft shops” is that we are over priced for them. They don’t generally sell collectables that have any real value. The model and game stores on the other hand sell expensive stuff to paint and it is expected. And in those stores Windstone would be a recognized name.
dragonmedley wrote:I just got off the phone with Diana at Green Earth in Burlington, Ontario, and she says she may not be able to carry the line anymore because she doesn’t have a distibutor. Said distributor told her Windstone sold their things directly now and were trying to tone down and become smaller. I told her that was not so and explained the difference between the regular line and the limited production/edition. I also pointed out that she could probably order straight from Windstone, but she was hesitant because the customs duty is a killer.
What to do? Do Canadian stores need a wholesaler/distributor? What is a wholesaler? Could I become one, like buy a whole bunch, stock them and resale to stores, or would I need an official warehouse?
Sunhawk, our outing is not looking too good at this point 😥
Shaun has got it about right. We are now selling direct to Canada and the price to the stores is a little better than it was coming through our Canadian distributor. Distributors need to buy at a large discount off of wholesale and we were losing money in giving that discount to our distributor. Cutting them off was not something we wanted to do but we just could not stand the loss. Normally manufacturers sell through sales reps and have the reps comission to work with when discounting to a distributor but we do not. We operate on a very low cost of sales with a very high cost of production which makes it hard to extend discounts.
Please encourage any dealers you find in Canada to contact us and we will gladly supply them.
