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The issue to for me is not whether or not someone disagrees with the rule. I am more than happy to get constructive critism and do my best to integrate feedback into the next quest. We will be making changes to how voting happens on future quests to help alleviate some concerns. Please remember this IS still a relatively new program so there will be querks to work through as we try new things.
However, to my mind, once it was clearly stated that it was not cheating to share the entries for this quest on Facebook, continuing to call people who may have done so ‘cheaters’ was uncalled for. Cheating/cheater are very inflammatory terms and there doesn’t really exist a polite context for using them.
That being said, on either side of this issue, please take any additional comments to myself or John privately. We are still interested in your feedback, but it’s doing no good for us to continue this discussion publically There’s really only opportunity for more hurt feelings and misunderstandings.
If you have ideas for other ways to handle voting though, please feel free to post them!
Thank you!
-Kiya
I used to be the only mod for a while, and I was quite strict. But I shall point out that I no longer moderate things like this. I stepped down awhile ago (can you blame me…). Just offering an explanation.
My comment was not aimed at you in particular, Jennifer – I didn’t see anyone except Kiya at the end actually doing anything about this.
But I have seen you moderate the forum since you stepped down.
So if you are no longer a moderator, yet you still do moderate sometimes…
Can you see why this might be confusing?I understand your confusion. I do donate time when needed to moderate black and white things, such as requests to delete double posts, help with posting pictures, and closing threads that have Windstone sales (now that we have a classifieds section), etc.
I don’t moderate disputes and such. I no longer want to be involved. Which is why I’m putting my foot in my mouth and no longer commenting on this issue! I apologize.
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My art: featherdust.comNo problem Jennifer – thank you for clearing that up for me. Please don’t take my comment to heart, I was angry and confused. I hope you know I love you <3
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Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!Perhaps you could form a panel of active forum members, and have them vote. I am certain you get a sizable pool if you asked.
Another option, and not fair to many people, would to be allow only the finalists to vote. The traditional finalists could vote on the digital media and vice versa. Then, no one could vote for themselves and they couldn’t solicited votes from others, or you could randomly and anonymously contact various forum members and ask them to vote, then no one would know who voted and couldn’t solicit those votes. That’s probably a better option because some of the finalists know who each other are.
Not as fun as everyone being able to vote, but it would limit the votes to actual forum members. That’s really all I want is the judging to be done by actual forum members who love Windstones, not a “friend” who is just doing you a solid (as my kids would say).
It was not my intention to insult people or “spew hatred” as I have been accused of. I was/am angry that this is not a fair competition.
The idea of having the finalists for each category vote for the other category is interesting. I don’t know if we’ll do multiple categories again, but I’ll certainly put this on the list of things to consider!
Along the same lines as Marge’s idea was you could have the people who were not picked to be finalists be the judges. I don’t know how many entered, but you might get more people that way.
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Sun Dragon Koi #3Along the same lines as Marge’s idea was you could have the people who were not picked to be finalists be the judges. I don’t know how many entered, but you might get more people that way.
I think this might work in a multiple category approach if you had them help in the category they weren’t entering, but I don’t think it would be good if we had a single category (such as the fuzzy photo contest).
It might be hard for someone to be an unbiased judge for the entries that beat theirs. 🙂
Honestly though, I’m more in favor of having completely uninvolved people if we pull any judges from the forum members. I think it would be easier to be fair and unbiased if you didn’t enter at all.
Um, I just want to say, I personally think the contest is fair the way it is as internet contests go (actually compared to sites like threadless and whatnot, very fair, because you can’t just log in from a facebook account) and also that voting for yourself is unsportsmanlike, so that would be the only rule that I would impose if you were going to impose one. I know not everyone wants to be honourable like that, but that’s my 2 cents on the subject. :/ I’ve enjoyed watching this contest anyway! 😀
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Excellent!
I do not think the contest is fair as set up. The finalists are not being judged on the quality of their work, they are being judged on how many of their facebook friends have/are willing to create forum accounts. If Windstone wants to run a popularity type contest as a quest this would be a fine way to do it, and I would not participate. I find that sort of thing soul destroying rather than empowering. I agree with the people who want the voting changed for future art/photo contest type quests. If I had realized that the voting on the quests was like this I would not have participated at all. The thought that voting on previous quests may have been influenced by facebook actually makes me feel kind of queasy.
I do not know how much overlap there is between finalists from one contest to the next, but you could have finalists from previous contests be the judges of the current contest if you do not do multiple categories.
I personally think the contest is fair the way it is as internet contests go (actually compared to sites like threadless and whatnot, very fair, because you can’t just log in from a facebook account) and also that voting for yourself is unsportsmanlike, so that would be the only rule that I would impose if you were going to impose one.
It would be fair if everyone knew from the start of the quest that advertizing to friends on social network sites was going to be a major percentage of the voting. And if in future quests this sort of voting is going to be the deciding factor, that is fine, at least we will ALL know before hand. And those of us, like myself and from the sounds of it several others, who do not use sites like facebook we will be able to choose not to join in the quest.
The voting for yourself thing…well I think everyone has been doing it (since everyone has at least one vote) so it all evens out and makes no difference to the results.
Hi Guys,
I apologize, I really tried to leave this thread open, but I have requested that any concerns about the fairness of this quest be taken to John or I be moved to private discussions to avoid any further hurt feelings and there are several new posts about this so I am closing the thread.
We absolutely are okay with you having concerns and genuinely WANT your feedback. Just not at the cost of making others feel bad for taking advantage of a voting base that did not violate the rules.
I do appreciate that these new comments are reasoned and not hostile – I am not singling out anyone and there is no discipline attached to this action. It’s just a matter that we have beaten this point to death and people are upset.
I was the decision maker here. If you don’t agree with what I did, I’m more than happy to hear you out privately. If you feel you’d rather talk to John or Shihiv, that’s fine also.
But please, we don’t need to make people feel bad who DIDN’T make the decision and just leveraged a means of gathering votes that WAS allowed.
Thank you!
-Kiya
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