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The thing here though is that there is no feedback to be left because no trade or transaction ended up happening. So in a sense with the thread on facebook I guess that is where a lot of people were reminded of past hurtful dealings with people and it ended up coming off as rants in place of feedback. Other people’s names were brought up on that thread only because people felt they had been put through or unfairly dealt with by more than just the one person it was posted about. In that case, with over 200 comments there about things that were not repeated here, it makes me wonder why someone would feel the need to make a thread about one comment out of 200 here. What I would like to know is what happened to resolve the problem with the person the facebook thread was about to begin with? Because the person the thread was about is still actively using this site after being reported several times for trying to scam people or not sending their parts of trades.
Looking for rainbow or pink & teal grab bags!
When it comes to a ‘strike’ policy I’ve found things like that are iffy at best. If someone is the kind of person who enjoys toying with others and they have the opportunity to knowingly do harm and get away with it, they’ll take advantage of it. I’m a fan of no-tolerance and/or one-warning policies. Even better if it’s associated with a ban tied to their IP–i.e. anyone else living with them would be penalized for their folly. That might seem incredibly harsh BUT it puts an added stigma to behave like a civilized person since they’d be facing repercussions at home.
There is a gaming Forum that is extremely popular in this regard. Also, it is not easy to join. I’m not saying that Windstone needs to follow suit in that regard, but I think they should knuckle down on people who have multiple accounts. Unfortunately, it also means that any family members using the same IP will have to verify that it is in fact, them who’s using the account, and not just a duplicate for one owner. Once the IP is banned, it’s banned. So those who live under one roof must take into consideration the possible consequences of their actions, should they misbehave. Even so, the issues with IPs are difficult: what if said banned person moves to a new location? It would be a different IP, because they’d have a new Provider. IPs aren’t unique to each individual User. I know this was discussed before in another Thread, so I don’t think banning a User would be entirely effective. Merely a temporary fix. With the Strike system, complaints would have to go through a review, with both parties presenting their side. It wouldn’t be just some random marking another’s account, for whatever reason. This way, even if a previously banned User somehow rejoins, they’ll be quickly found out. People rarely ever change much. Eventually, old habits will kick in, and the truth will out. Personally, I don’t think that banning Users is the way to go. It just won’t work like we’d all like it to. A feedback system needs to be implemented, and it will ultimately be up to the rest of us to do our research before entering into a transaction with someone new. Also, with new Users, I think using a safe-guard through PayPal for Trades is a good idea, however, how many of us are left with little to nothing in our banks after a Grab? That also presents a dilemma, and this overall issue is something that needs to be seriously discussed if we want to keep the Forum we know, and love.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more work it would be for Windstone. It is a small company, in which the people running it, do more for us than we can imagine, and they most certainly don’t have to. It’s definitely not a characteristic that other companies share. At least, not on the same, personal level in which Windstone deals with us. Why can’t we all just get along, and be kind to each other? If only for the consideration for the interest we all share? Jeez, people.
↞↞≪∙ FOREVER SEEKING •↟•
• ► By Patricia Smith ◄ •
☙ "SKY BRONZE" Emperor Dragon
✾ "RAINBOW ASAGI" Moon Oriental Dragon
✾ "RAINBOW TIGER" Sun Oriental Dragon• ► By Melody ◄ •
☙ "Test Paint #5" GB '15 PUMA
☙ #170 FANTASY GB '22 Young Qi'Lin
☙ #224 KOI GB '22 Young Qi'LinWindstone is such a wonderful company, and it has been really sad to me to see the drama going on (I only see the forum side of things, since I don’t go to social media sites) here. It would break my heart for the forum to disappear, but I understand how the nasty stuff could harm your company. 🙁
I agree with this completely. I do not use social media sites. I have tried them and found them full of strife and drama usually. So I avoid them.
I love the Windstone forums though as generally it is full of very supporting people that try hard to see the good in each other and to be happy for each other.
Melody and the staff are to me the most amazing people on the planet. I have never even heard of another company that is so willing to be there and to take care of issues. Melody listens to our input every day.
They are all great about answering questions and concerns quickly and to do so in a clear concise way. To see this way of doing things put at risk deeply saddens me.
We must all remember that having this site, being able to come here and to buy, sell or trade with each other isn’t some divine right, it is something Windstone allows out of the kindness of their hearts.To me this all comes down to something very basic…
Treat others with the EXACT same respect and understanding that you WANT to be treated with.I want everyone to treat me well and with respect and understanding. But I do not expect it from people. It is what I hope for. And so I do my best to always treat others well, even if I am not always treated well. Life was never promised to be all Windstones and rainbows. Live it well so when you look back you know you added to the good in the world and not the bad.
Looking for:
"COSMIC SHIFT DRAGONS and KI-RINS" and the "OCTOPUS TANUKI TEST PAINT #1"Take a few minutes to breath and step back for a little while. Sometimes this helps because I’ll suddenly realize saying what I initially wanted to say won’t help the situation or just isn’t worth it.
Well said. I think this is the Platinum Rule for posting. It’s too easy to type something and send it out without making sure it says what you want to say, and that the message is useful, or at least not harmful. (I’ve posted my share of silly messages. :p)
On a sidenote–and please correct me if I’m wrong–I don’t think there’s a stickied post anywhere specifically about submitting issues. There is a post about forum rules/guidelines but nothing (that I recall) about whom to contact when you have a problem. Until recently I didn’t even know who John was, and I’ve no idea whom the moderators are! Perhaps having that knowledge on display somewhere would help avoid public persecutions.
I think you’re right. It’s a good point. I think that the moderators all have “Official Scatterbat” in their signatures – Jennifer, Kiya, not sure who else. However, I don’t think there is a list anyplace.
I have referred a problem to a moderator once or twice and gotten a good response.
Indeed…
Treat others with the EXACT same respect and understanding that you WANT to be treated with.
I want everyone to treat me well and with respect and understanding. But I do not expect it from people. It is what I hope for. And so I do my best to always treat others well, even if I am not always treated well. Life was never promised to be all Windstones and rainbows. Live it well so when you look back you know you added to the good in the world and not the bad.
Every act matters.No matter how small💞
(Wanted......Brimstone Lap)
Male Hearth....one day🤞Dream on.Just a note… I started the feedback lists so they would all be in the same spot. The positive list was one thread here, the negative hosted elsewhere, etc. I do update the lists pretty much as I get feedback and I do update the date on the first post so you know when the last update was done.
I am getting quite a few messages and of course, this happens when my computer is down! I can do lots of stuff with my iPad, but updating my website is unfortunately not one of them. As most comments are positive, we’re ok! My personal computer guy promised me a machine this week.
If you do have a question in the meantime, send me a message.
Read my books! Volume 1 and 2 of A Dragon Medley are available now.
http://www.sarahjestin.com/mybooks.htm
I host the feedback lists, which are maintained by drag0nfeathers.
http://www.sarahjestin.com/feedbacklists.htmHow very sad :(( I’ve been part of this community for almost 7 years and met some wonderful people on here–some who turned out to be great friends but I have to agree that a lot has changed. Personally, I hate drama–doesn’t do anyone any good but stress people out and bring bad karma. In the past, I have to admit there were issues and I remember some posts in which people were leaving and said as such–didn’t like the fighting, back-biting etc so there were always issues. But lately, to see posts about trades and transactions gone bad really breaks my heart. I look at this forum as a wonderful, supportive community and gathers to encourage each other when one is having a bad day. I used to be on Facebook but no longer–couldn’t stand the drama that took place. Wasn’t my concern and I don’t like to get into anyone’s business in that way.
I also notice that I don’t see some of the older forum members here but things happen in people’s lives–jobs, financial hardships and family illness may be some of the reasons these people are no longer around. But I have to admit–this forum doesn’t seem as fun as it used to be–maybe this is part of it or maybe things are going on we each have to personally deal with.
What I’ve loved about this community is that there is a genuine desire to help each other in whatever ways we can. If someone is down because of job and economic or personal woes, members are quick to post an encouraging word and send virtual hugs and warm thoughts. I would like to see the personal attacks cease–keep that between the afflicted parties. This should be a place where we shouldn’t have to worry about the integrity of the person we’re dealing with when it comes to transactions.
The Golden Rule applies–do unto others as you would like them to do unto you and remember–what goes around comes around.
Since this is pretty important, I’ve had no issues here. I’m more of a lurker than a poster, but that’s just because I don’t have much to say. The trades and offers I have done on the trading board have gone well. No problems.
I would really be disappointed if the board goes away. So I hope not.
My personal policy, when I’m upset, I can type it, but I have to wait before I hit that send button. I usually end up deleting it. Just the typing helps me out.
Hope everyone works things out.
-- Angie
Perhaps there was this golden age of the forum where everyone wore a halo, but I guess it was well before my time.
As somebody who joined here very early on, this drama has always been here. It just seems to come and go in waves. There have always been call-out threads and people sending nasty PMs and discussions turning into fights. It’s called human nature, and I’m not really sure it can be eradicated. One can make rules endlessly, but what constitutes somebody being rude or mean or whatever is so subjective, and it takes a lot of time and attention from the people running the forum to catch every rude comment… I’m not sure it can be done here, to be honest.
On the other hand, the VAST majority of folks here have always been nice and polite. So long as outright name-calling and personal attacks aren’t allowed, I don’t think the forums are going to collapse under the drama.
P.S. I hate to add to the drama, but personally I WOULD appreciate it if people who flake out and back out of trades and sales would not themselves then go and rant about how awful it is when somebody flakes out and backs out of trades and sales… Just saying.
As somebody who joined here very early on, this drama has always been here. It just seems to come and go in waves. There have always been call-out threads and people sending nasty PMs and discussions turning into fights. It’s called human nature, and I’m not really sure it can be eradicated. One can make rules endlessly, but what constitutes somebody being rude or mean or whatever is so subjective, and it takes a lot of time and attention from the people running the forum to catch every rude comment… I’m not sure it can be done here, to be honest.
On the other hand, the VAST majority of folks here have always been nice and polite. So long as outright name-calling and personal attacks aren’t allowed, I don’t think the forums are going to collapse under the drama.
Agreeing with SPark (have also been here for quite some time). These things seem to happen in a cycle. They’ve happened before, been quelled with a rule update from John or a mod and everything was as peaceful as possible with so many different personalities present before the next dust up reared its head. I think it comes with the waxing and waning that happens as older members drop away from the forum and newer ones join, something that was percolating comes to a boil as new members get involved and so on and so forth.
I feel like I broke the forum (though I am not the writer of this email). I truly apologize to the community as a whole for any strife and division caused by any postings I have made.
For years I have really relished my time here and the friends I have made. My family and friends don’t have the love for dragons that I do…and are quite verbal about telling me I don’t need to spend $Xxx on a dragon “when I have three just like it”. When that gets me down, I can post here and be comforted by others that understand. I would hate to lose our community.
When I joined the forum it wasn’t magically perfect, but on the whole very welcoming, inviting, and non-judgmental. I was a frequent poster, and even ran the eBay thread for a time. Slowly, though, I started to see a change in nature and tone of posts, though, and some things even got my blood boiling, really. Thankfully, I typed long, scathing replies (just to get it out) and never actually posted them.
I decided to step back from the forum, and for a few years now I’ve been more of a lurker than a regular poster. From what I can tell by who is online, a lot of others I know choose to do this nowadays as well, but I can’t speak to the reasons.
As to a solution…..I really don’t know. Anytime there is a large group of people (and a large amount of money) involved….there will be conflict whether by personality clash, misunderstandings (or inability to communicate), or fraud and deception of some sort.
I think a moderator list is a great idea (who to contact if problems arise). I know I certainly would have handled things differently and would have went that route to begin with if I had known who to contact.
I noticed there is a “flag” choice on some posts…..is this similar to “reporting” a post on FB? I hate the idea of a community policing each other, though, that is not a happy playground. Plus, it sounds like a nightmare for the moderators.
Policing ourselves is always the best answer, so perhaps with such a huge general forum sense of unrest and unease we can go forward from here and make responsible, ethical posts that will foster a feeling of love and community.
I wish I had an answer, but I just wanted to pay my two cents.
I know I messed up by taking my grievance public, and I’m very sorry for that.
One minor thing I would suggest in attempting to prevent future problems is immediately directing newcomers to the forum rules and guidelines when they introduce themselves in the welcome section. I know that’s not a fun welcome. Still, how many many newbs actively go looking for the rules when they join? It should be obvious not to call someone out by name, but you never know what some people think is acceptable these days. Of course, new members may not read them even if you do ask them to review or follow the rules but it’s worth a shot, right?
I haven’t been a member very long and to Spark’s point, having read threads from years ago, it does seem the negativity has always been here in spurts. However, the positive does outweigh the negative. I guess it depends on your negativity threshold whether or not you see it that way. For someone who hasn’t been here that long it doesn’t seem out of the ordinary, but it IS disappointing.
Oh my goodness! I was out of town at a job interview in Chicago – I was very surprised to come back to all of this!
Pam, Jen, and I are the official “scatterbats” and we can help with some items. You’re always welcome to contact us for any reason. If it’s something we can’t handle, we can involve the higher-ups to step in and do what is needed. We’re always happy to help. I am not on the forum as much as I used to be, but PMs do go to my email address and as long as it’s awake hours in the Pacific Coast, I will respond to all messages promptly.
Please, everyone, I know forum drama stresses Melody out – it is ALWAYS better to get help with a problem rather than causing drama. And the staff is very willing to do all they can to resolve issues.
I know I messed up by taking my grievance public, and I’m very sorry for that.
Honestly, I didn’t see you airing any of your grievances on the forums directly (though, maybe I missed that?). You inquired on where a forum member was, didn’t go into much detail, and then I didn’t hear anything about it until I found the discussion on Facebook. Again, unless I’m missing something I think the way you went about it was about the best way you could have. Unfortunately sometimes there’s a problem lurking in the shadows that doesn’t get resolved until it gets proper attention, and oftentimes that isn’t pretty, but it’s better than the issue never getting raised and looked at.
I can see what Lupus and SPark and others are saying about the drama always being there – I joined in late 2010 and the forums seemed pretty peachy to me then, but I wouldn’t have had any idea of drama that may have happened in the past, and I know that drama has happened on occasion since I joined. I see your points, and I would agree that there are definitely bouts of peacefulness on the forum that pervades for the majority of the time. Yes, the good outweighs the bad. Unfortunately when the bad happens, it’s what we tend to remember, and it can certainly ruin things in a hurry, and I do feel that lately the bad has been pervasive on the forums. It may not be the majority of posts, but when there’s something nasty or dramatic going on it doesn’t take much to ruin the experience as a whole.
I like the ideas of having a moderator list somewhere very visible, and of reminding new members to check out the rules section when we are welcoming them (this is very much a standard of many forums, so I don’t think it would be unwelcoming!).
Are more moderators needed? I would hate for that to be true, given that we have been for the most part able to stay decent to each other. But I know Kiya has a baby and family to take care of and hasn’t been around very much, that Jennifer has her own business to tend to and is very busy, and of course John is very busy with Windstone business. I believe Shihiv is around when people PM him but I’m not sure about general watching-of-the-forums business. Again, I would hate for the forum to be a place where moderators are just lurking around waiting for something to go wrong, and that’s certainly not what I am suggesting – just throwing out ideas to see if it should or should not be considered. I think this may simply be best answered by the mods themselves – are you guys overwhelmed? Or are things relatively easy to manage?
Perhaps more moderators are not needed, and the more visible list of where to contact a moderator would do its job just fine! I would add to that, that the list should include who is best to contact for what (Contact John for copyright infringement questions, Shihiv for general moderation questions, etc) and the best place to contact them (Jennifer sees emails much quicker than PMs for example).
EDIT: I took forever to write this post and didn’t see Kiya’s response until after I hit save XD Hi Kiya! *wave*
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