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This morning I received an email from a very long time forum member that I want to share. This member is well known to us at Windstone and I can personally vouch for the member’s intellect, maturity and sound judgment, so I cannot sit on this. This member is not one of the usual suspects. Here it is:
Hi John
Is there anything you can do about getting people to stop airing personal grievances on the forum?
I’m sick and tired (as I’m sure you are) of reading the whining, complaining, and general backbiting that’s been posted lately. I’m referring to lythsian’s recent post about Facebook libel. XXXX has jumped all over her in her usual self righteous, entitled style. I don’t care what goes on between people. Really, I don’t.
The unofficial feedback list is there for transactions and I have a feeling that dragonmedley is going to get very busy updating it.
Anyway, can you please get people to stop? It takes a lot of the fun out of being on the forum.
Thanks.
XXXXX”You know, I think it takes nearly all the fun out of the forum, and for what? To satisfy some odd quirk of personality that is harbored in some of us and can’t be controlled? This particular problem started on FaceBook and then got dragged back to the forum and it, like all the episodes before, has polluted the very waters that have grown the community here in our forum. It used to be fun. We used to communicate and exchange our life’s events world-wide, with new friends made daily, invitations offered to visit, invitations accepted, exchanges of Windstome pieces with the integrity and honesty of some of the friendliest, most gracious, most interesting people on earth. And we marveled at it. How this grew from our forum, organically, from the good will of the members, and what a small role we needed to play in nurturing this wonderful thing.
Our original cast of characters is still largely there, still benevolent, in the wings and not participating, but many have given up the cause because of the demeanor that now pervades the forum. And deceitful trades? Lies about shipping, condition of the goods, stiffing each other for payment? Our intent was never to run a marketplace for con artists, thieves and the self-entitled. In other words, for a select number of you. Yes, a select number, who are screwing up one of the best internet communities ever created and screwing over every member.
Where do we go from here? As this is discussed you will get my honest and straightforward opinion, and I will start it off with this: I for one do not want to continue to host a platform for the type of devious activity and inconsiderate behavior that precipitated this thread.
I think it’s safe to say we should keep issues that occur on other platforms/websites like Facebook separate from what goes on here on the WS forum. I think that could be a start, the WS forum should be a safe comfortable place and if issues arise on other sites, then that’s where it ought to stay IMO. Sorta like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas lol.
*Formerly meowmix101
Not currently open for PYO commissions.Well said John. There are so many forum members that no longer bother to come here anymore, and their loss weakens our community as a whole. So what can we do?
I am hoping that the feedback list gets utilized much more often, and strengthened from it, but that’s just one piece of the puzzle. What else can we as a part of this community do to squelch the bad behavior and raise up the good? I believe that some are willing to call people to task for it but is that breaking the rules?
I love this community but I’ve been more and more scare over the years precisely for the reasons you started this thread. So I ask sincerely, what can we do? I want Windstone to be as (relatively) drama free as when I first started posting here 5 years ago, and I’m more than willing to do my part.
Edit: I agree with meowmix. It does seem like a lot of drama gets dragged across platforms and it truly shouldn’t. This is more a matter of policing the forums though, as it seems clear some people will skirt the rules. What can we as a community do beyond reporting behavior? Is there anything?
Commission spots are currently closed! Please message me for details.
Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!The Golden Rule:
Do Onto Others as You Would Have Done Onto You.Another code to live by:
If You Cannot Say Something Nice About Someone, Don’t Say Anything At All.Question for the Moderators:
Could offending posts be completely deleted and participants warned by PM to cease – perhaps given a ‘Strike’ rule?
Just a thought…IN SEARCH OF MY NEXT GRAILS:
Black Peacock & Butternut Adult Poads
Kickstarter 'Rainbow Tiger' Bantam Dragon*~*~*~* Ela_Hara: The DragonKeeper *~*~*~*
*** Come visit me on deviantArt at http://ela-hara.deviantart.comI know compared to some, my five years on the forum isn’t much. However, it has been my experience that, though perhaps not as prevalent as we are experiencing it now, occasionally there is some negative gossip or grumping going on that gets locked down by a mod. And the theft and scams, also, are not new. That negative feedback list didn’t spawn over night; scamming has been an ongoing issue.
Perhaps there was this golden age of the forum where everyone wore a halo, but I guess it was well before my time. Dealing with the public is always messy, and overall, this is a very friendly and tame community. Look at all the fun and FAN-tastic posts and threads that are humming with activity. Weigh that against the bad.
And perhaps on a brighter note, I think we are a lot larger today? It feels to me like we have many new and newer people, a lot of posting and fun conversations, and also just a ton more content on the forum. And so, yes there are problems, but we might be looking at it disproportionately. Maybe the negative experiences and comments appear common or more prominent because we’ve grown into such a mighty hoard with so many people interacting? Someone more mathematically inclined than I should statistically analyze the dates and frequencies of locked threads.
That being said, it would be totally sweet if we could kick repeat offenders, either scammers or repeat (and previously warned) content violators, off the forum for good. 0:)
The Golden Rule:
Do Onto Others as You Would Have Done Onto You.Another code to live by:
If You Cannot Say Something Nice About Someone, Don’t Say Anything At All.Question for the Moderators:
Could offending posts be completely deleted and participants warned by PM to cease – perhaps given a ‘Strike’ rule?
Just a thought…Excellent ways of self moderation Ela!
In the past I’ve been guilty of whining, self pity and passive aggressiveness (very embarrassing upon reflection I can assure you all). And I apologize for that. It was pretty messed up of me.
Since then I’ve tried to moderate myself. The first two rules stated by Ela_Hara have helped.
Another couple also help me.
1) Take a few minutes to breath and step back for a little while. Sometimes this helps because I’ll suddenly realize saying what I initially wanted to say won’t help the situation or just isn’t worth it.
2) Look at what you want to say and think, ‘If I look back on this later…will it embarrass me?’ This is important because…once it’s posted on the net…it can be there PERMANENTLY.
It always pays to be as careful in internet conversation as you are in face to face conversation. I hope that we can all work together to bring the forums back to a happier state of being.
You can check out my work on dA & Redbubble!
https://prezaurian.deviantart.com/
https://www.redbubble.com/people/prezaurian?ref=artist_title_nameI have been very ill this weekend so I’m a bit behind, but I caught up with the other thread. It’s my honest opinion that if one takes issue with what someone is saying on a totally different site (especially a social media site, be it facebook, twitter, etc) then they should address it how they see fit… on that other site. Pulling it here, to the forum, even if naming no names, just spreads the drama around, and can actually backfire by putting even more attention onto the issue, bease it is naural for those not involved to get curious and seek it out. Personal grieviences are usually best dealt with in private.
It is awful to feel wronged, and okay to seek support from friends, but intentional or not, it’s too easy to cross that line and drag everything into negativity.
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comThe Golden Rule:
Do Onto Others as You Would Have Done Onto You.Another code to live by:
If You Cannot Say Something Nice About Someone, Don’t Say Anything At All.Question for the Moderators:
Could offending posts be completely deleted and participants warned by PM to cease – perhaps given a ‘Strike’ rule?
Just a thought…I would love an open discussion on how to determine how much a post needs to be “breaking a rule” to count as a strike? Just a little? Blatantly breaking a rule? Some posts are borderline.
Also, unlike other forums, our site shares a user login across all parts of the site. Our software is, well, a handicap at times.Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comI agree with John.
Originally, before I ever joined this Forum, I spent about three years just browsing the Threads, seeing how people treated each other. My prior experience with anything Public, had always been poor, to say the least, so
I was extremely, however pleasantly, surprised by how welcoming this Community was when I finally did join. Today, the Forum is drastically different from how it was back then. So much so, that several people know that I’ve been moments away from selling everything, deleting my account, and saying goodbye. Forever.Regarding interactions with others through transactions, whether they be trades, commissions, sales, whatever, I cannot say that I’ve always been perfect. Like many others, I try my very hardest to keep a clean record.
I believe that communication is vital to the well-being of each and every transaction. Whether the news be good, or bad, or just somewhere in between. For example, recently, my own personal life has interfered with several transactions falling through, or delayed, or whatever reason. I have never considered making excuses to be acceptable. However, if someone has proof of their situation, I’m all about letting someone take care of that business first, within an acceptable time period. Life happens, and just as I would be understanding of another who’s dealing with the crap that Life throws at us, I would hope others to be understanding of me, too. We all love this inedible addiction that are Windstones, but gypping others, cheating, lying, and taking advantage of someone just because you think you can, is wrong. I’m not a very trusting person to begin with, but even I have lost trust in several Forum Users that I once considered to be really good friends, for the very things just stated.I would be very sad to see the Forum taken down, however, the reasons behind it, and seeing plenty of what goes on in and behind the scenes, I completely understand the justification for it. We, as a Community, need to act together to improve upon these problems, if not make them disintegrate, altogether. I really like the Strikes idea. The “Windstone Hoard” seems to have become much too large to be able to manage itself without some kind of system. And, like a previous Poster said, there are a lot of new people. We need to utilize the Feedback Lists. For the health, sanity, and overall well-being of everyone who participates on this Forum.
↞↞≪∙ FOREVER SEEKING •↟•
• ► By Patricia Smith ◄ •
☙ "SKY BRONZE" Emperor Dragon
✾ "RAINBOW ASAGI" Moon Oriental Dragon
✾ "RAINBOW TIGER" Sun Oriental Dragon• ► By Melody ◄ •
☙ "Test Paint #5" GB '15 PUMA
☙ #170 FANTASY GB '22 Young Qi'Lin
☙ #224 KOI GB '22 Young Qi'LinWindstone is such a wonderful company, and it has been really sad to me to see the drama going on (I only see the forum side of things, since I don’t go to social media sites) here. It would break my heart for the forum to disappear, but I understand how the nasty stuff could harm your company. 🙁
I tend to agree with LupusLunae. I don’t think the issues are anything new, I think they have just been more “public” recently with folks airing issues publicly rather than in PMs. But, really, I can’t fault them for doing so because it seems like the only way to get resolution to the issues is to air them out publicly.
I truly think the “devious activity and inconsiderate behavior” referenced in this thread is the exception rather than the norm. I have been a member of this community for over two years now and I have never had a bad experience trading/ buying/ selling with anyone yet that hasn’t been resolved (knock on wood!). Maybe I have just been lucky, but I don’t think so. I think the vast majority of the folks on this forum are good, honest, forthright people who do what they say they will do.
The feedback lists are awesome, and thank you very much to dragonmedly for hosting them, but maybe we need a separate list or forum specifically for feedback, where we can list our own comments and see comments listed by others right away. As it is, we have no way of knowing when anything on the lists has been updated. Another hobby I am involved in has a Yahoo Group specifically for transaction feedback. You can set it up to have a “daily digest” sent directly to your email, so you don’t have to go to a website to see updates. Also you can go to the group directly and run searches for people’s names and any feedback (both good and bad) will pop up. It could be a way to air grievances without bringing it here to the forum. It’s just a thought!
I still think this forum is one of the friendliest and most welcoming places on Earth! 🙂
It is already clear who the post is about and Lysithian is the one who brought the drama here so why are people taking sides here when this should not have even been mentioned here? Over one comment on a different website? Whoever has something against me and thinks I am self righteous, how would you like to be taken advantage of or scammed by the same people? Yes I tied the two together because they had dealings together when I was involved. John is aware of the facebook post because I told him about the facebook post and he is also aware of how I had been scammed by the facebook person. Lysithian has attacked me on here before and I am sick of the drama myself but if someone posts something in regards to me whether my name was mentioned or not I am going to tell the whole story so people understand what happened. She has ignored my pms and has not tried to pm me so how is she allowed to be posting things on here like that after it was already stated not to do that? I have been through enough in the last few years that I do not need to deal with drama, bullying and getting scammed again. A simple message to me to clear things up would have sufficed rather than this all being posted here. I am done with it all.
Looking for rainbow or pink & teal grab bags!
Anyone ever think of hosting a Feedback Group on Facebook?? I think the majority of us use it, and it’s somewhere people can discuss dealings. The only problem is, I don’t think there’s a way to make a list there like dragonmedley has done, so diligently. The alphabetical order would be difficult, since feedback would end up scattered over time. It’s something that really needs to be seriously considered. If a rating system can’t be applied in the Forum, itself, maybe separate the Forum from the Windstone site, entirely? I understand that it’s an issue right now, because it’s the actual company that runs the Store and the Forum on one site. If they were run separately, by another Host, wouldn’t that take away the liability? Just brainstorming here…
I also agree with the others, that it’s because the Forum has grown so immensely just in the past couple of years, that the problems have become much more apparent. Drama will always happen wherever people gather. It’s just a matter of time. People, are people. There’s nothing that can be done to change that fact. We can only try to remain as friendly with each other, as possible. If only to keep this Forum the generally pleasant place that it is. And, not to knock on dragonmedley’s efforts, but I do think it is in desperate need of a Feedback system that can be kept up-to-date on a regular basis, and not just a User-run Feedback list. However, like I said in my previous post, it does need to be utilized until a better program can take its place.
↞↞≪∙ FOREVER SEEKING •↟•
• ► By Patricia Smith ◄ •
☙ "SKY BRONZE" Emperor Dragon
✾ "RAINBOW ASAGI" Moon Oriental Dragon
✾ "RAINBOW TIGER" Sun Oriental Dragon• ► By Melody ◄ •
☙ "Test Paint #5" GB '15 PUMA
☙ #170 FANTASY GB '22 Young Qi'Lin
☙ #224 KOI GB '22 Young Qi'LinI’m relatively new to the forums so I wasn’t around in its glory days. For the short while I’ve been here though there has been a sense at times of undercurrents between several forum members that was pretty obvious to see. For the most part, though, the people I’ve interacted with have been genial and understanding.
As Jynxx said, communication is VITAL to avoid misunderstandings and hurt feelings. I know that I do my best to be upfront about my situation, particularly with regards to buying/trading pieces; sometimes there just isn’t enough money to go around with Ebay pieces (special or otherwise), grab bags, and the classifieds. Sometimes deals fall through. It hurts that much more when you try your best to make it work out by wheeling and dealing a multitrade situation and, after all that effort, it doesn’t. It happens. It’s frustrating as heck, for sure! But–not to be cliche–life is hardly fair and it’s never easy.
When it comes to a ‘strike’ policy I’ve found things like that are iffy at best. If someone is the kind of person who enjoys toying with others and they have the opportunity to knowingly do harm and get away with it, they’ll take advantage of it. I’m a fan of no-tolerance and/or one-warning policies. Even better if it’s associated with a ban tied to their IP–i.e. anyone else living with them would be penalized for their folly. That might seem incredibly harsh BUT it puts an added stigma to behave like a civilized person since they’d be facing repercussions at home.
One thing for sure: forum members are not the police. Dragging drama into the limelight just to get it resolved is a big no-no and should carry its own penalty. If people have grievances I feel that they should take their information to John and the mods and allow them to decide how to resolve it. That’s what they’re there for! But this also means trusting them to FAIRLY and IMPARTIALLY examine evidence. They will likely be empathic towards your grievances, but it’s possible that if you retaliate towards whomever you have issues with then they’ll have to judge your actions, too.
On a sidenote–and please correct me if I’m wrong–I don’t think there’s a stickied post anywhere specifically about submitting issues. There is a post about forum rules/guidelines but nothing (that I recall) about whom to contact when you have a problem. Until recently I didn’t even know who John was, and I’ve no idea whom the moderators are! Perhaps having that knowledge on display somewhere would help avoid public persecutions.
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