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I don’t see how it applies either. Neither you nor the current owner intentionally removed the copyright. You are not planning to create a sculpture from a copyrighted sculpture and then sell it as your own work. And you would only even potentially be fined if the owner of the copyright chooses to take you to court and sue you AND they win the suit.
Other copyrighted sculptures (like model horses, for example) are customized all the time and there has never been an issue.
I think so long as there is some marking on the new base that says that part of the sculpture was created by Melody it should be fine.
But I am not a lawyer and this should not be considered as legal advice.
I don’t see how it applies either. Neither you nor the current owner intentionally removed the copyright. You are not planning to create a sculpture from a copyrighted sculpture and then sell it as your own work. And you would only even potentially be fined if the owner of the copyright chooses to take you to court and sue you AND they win the suit.
Other copyrighted sculptures (like model horses, for example) are customized all the time and there has never been an issue.
I think so long as there is some marking on the new base that says that part of the sculpture was created by Melody it should be fine.
But I am not a lawyer and this should not be considered as legal advice.
I haven’t been online in quite some time as the … backlash of posting my request were a bit..well..nasty, but that is neither here nor there.
I found the broken unicorn on ebay. there were no pieces. I had the idea of a seahorse floating around in my head for awhile after seeing Debbie Lermonds “Tempest” and when I saw the broken unicorn I thought he would work.
I bought him and he sat for about 5 years as I was not going to attempt him myself, I figured I would find someone willing to tackle him at some point. And finances werent the best either. Recently I found this forum.
After finding this forum, I realized I probably should see about getting him restored first as that would be more acceptable. I did contact both Purplecat and Drag0nfeathers, and both were really unsure if they would be able to repair him, considering the extent of damage. After that I posted here looking for someone to bring my idea to life. I figured there would be some backlash so I did not mention I had already contacted purplecat and drag0nfeathers as I wanted the backlash directed at me. Considering the job I have, I consider myself pretty thick skinned, but the backlash was a bit more then I bargained for. I decided I did NOT need that kind of stress from a ‘hobby’ and I haven’t been online here since.
Getting to the point…that was a bit long winded…
Since the copyright is no longer, and I cannot say 100% that there would NOT be legal action taken against Allie and myself, I have told Allie to salvage the horn and eyes for her use and to throw the unicorn in the garbage.
Restoration is unlikely and since customizing isn’t really an option, there is nothing more that can be done with him. I will NOT drag Allie into something that has the abitily to damage her reputation, finances and health.
It’s disappointing yes, but I do understand where Windstone is coming from.
Along the model horse line: Model Horses are mass produced by the thousands, tracking down all those people who customize and sell them would take an army. Not to mention, it’s pretty obvious (unless the piece is completely redone) what the original started out as. Stone horses, Breyers, Schleich, they are USUALLY pretty easy to identify. Of course this is my personal opinion and probably means nothing.
Resin model horses usually come with a VERA statement from the original artist stating what alterations (if any) are allowed. And even then, the copyright on those pieces is left alone, unlike the plastic ones where it is usually removed. I know that when Peter Stone was given permission to cast the resin “RR QH1” into plastic, it went trhough legal channels. Carol Williams name and copyright is on the plastic version. The one resin version I owned that was altered also had to get permission and Carol had to approve the final version.
Getting back to the Unicorn: Unfortunately, Windstone would only have my word that I would not be planning to cast it and sell it, and no, I had no intention of doing so. It was to be for my own enjoyment in my own home. Yes it would have been on display and yes photos would have been posted online stating it was a “resculpted Windstone Grand unicorn in a Seahorse by Allie”.
So the idea will stay an idea and I will probably look for a plastic breyer to have redone instead.
Leah
Dragonstar76Hi Leah,
I’m so sorry to hear you were treated so poorly because of your idea. Sad, really – in my opinion. I understand people that disagree with the idea, but there’s no reason to be nasty about it. I don’t blame you for deciding it wasn’t worth the trouble. Get yourself a Breyer “Silver” and have fun with it! Feel free to PM me if you want help finding a customizing artist.
Jackie
That is so odd. I don’t recall seeing anyone posting anything rude or seeing ‘backlash’ unless that was a private thing? I don’t understand though why it seems like a creative and simple idea would be completely blown out of proportion though talking about legal action and such? So Windstone would rather talk about fines and legal action then have someone restore and enjoy a piece like this? Now you would have lost money on buying it and paying for shipping and such? I am sorry to hear that and a little surprised at the outcome of this.
Looking for rainbow or pink & teal grab bags!
I think Windstone has had *so* much trouble fighting rip-off artists and thieves that they’re a little over-protective sometimes. I can’t blame them, really, it’s just a bit of a shame when a few fans get over-aggressive about it too. I’ve had the same thing happen to me, a few years back. It was, to be honest, about half the reason why I was gone from the forums for so long. I got some kind of nasty PMs from forum members over a repaint situation.
That is so odd. I don’t recall seeing anyone posting anything rude or seeing ‘backlash’ unless that was a private thing? I don’t understand though why it seems like a creative and simple idea would be completely blown out of proportion though talking about legal action and such? So Windstone would rather talk about fines and legal action then have someone restore and enjoy a piece like this? Now you would have lost money on buying it and paying for shipping and such? I am sorry to hear that and a little surprised at the outcome of this.
You can’t assume that the original owner will always have the piece. People die, pieces get stolen, and other calamities. Windstone has to be careful to protect their copyrights just like any other creative business.
Copyright is a funny thing. If you don’t enforce it consistently, you can end up unable to enforce it later on under different circumstances. I think we’ve all seen the knocks offs that show up on ebay and the like – unfortunately, in order to be protected against those, Windstone also has to prevent individual collectors from altering sculpts if they know about it.
I know it sucks and, honestly, Melody and John probably don’t have a _personal_ issue with repaints or resculpts. But legally, it’s just the stance the company has to take.
Copyright is a funny thing. If you don’t enforce it consistently, you can end up unable to enforce it later on under different circumstances. I think we’ve all seen the knocks offs that show up on ebay and the like – unfortunately, in order to be protected against those, Windstone also has to prevent individual collectors from altering sculpts if they know about it.
I know it sucks and, honestly, Melody and John probably don’t have a _personal_ issue with repaints or resculpts. But legally, it’s just the stance the company has to take.
The literal issue is not altering the sculpt. The literal issue is that the original copyright marking is missing/removed from the sculpture. You can alter a piece, but you cannot alter the copyright or remove it in any way. You also cannot reproduce any part of the sculpture in anyway accept to repair another piece.
That is the issue. The copyright symbol carved into the back of the base.
Recently married to the ever lovable BiPolarBear (little John)
www.weaselsoneasels.com | www.facebook.com/weaselsoneaselsAs seen on This is Life with Lisa Ling on CNN (2018) !
Always open for pyo commissions, repairs and fine artwork! Email me for current prices! awier(@)weaselsoneasels.comCopyright is a funny thing. If you don’t enforce it consistently, you can end up unable to enforce it later on under different circumstances. I think we’ve all seen the knocks offs that show up on ebay and the like – unfortunately, in order to be protected against those, Windstone also has to prevent individual collectors from altering sculpts if they know about it.
I know it sucks and, honestly, Melody and John probably don’t have a _personal_ issue with repaints or resculpts. But legally, it’s just the stance the company has to take.
The literal issue is not altering the sculpt. The literal issue is that the original copyright marking is missing/removed from the sculpture. You can alter a piece, but you cannot alter the copyright or remove it in any way. You also cannot reproduce any part of the sculpture in anyway accept to repair another piece.
That is the issue. The copyright symbol carved into the back of the base.
Actually, it is an issue whether or not the original copyright symbol is there or not. This has come up previously on the forum a few years back when people requested to alter PYO sculpts. It is still altering the original sculpt to the point of violating copyright law, even if the original copyright symbol was there. Unfortunately, like Kiya previously posted, Windstone has to protect their copyright in order to protect their livelihood, so they can continue to produce art and provide a living for themselves and their employees. It’s not being mean, it’s just the way it is and the way the laws are written.
I don’t see anything mean-spirited posted to this thread, but I’m sorry if someone was mean to you either of you two privately.
Copyright is a funny thing. If you don’t enforce it consistently, you can end up unable to enforce it later on under different circumstances. I think we’ve all seen the knocks offs that show up on ebay and the like – unfortunately, in order to be protected against those, Windstone also has to prevent individual collectors from altering sculpts if they know about it.
I know it sucks and, honestly, Melody and John probably don’t have a _personal_ issue with repaints or resculpts. But legally, it’s just the stance the company has to take.
The literal issue is not altering the sculpt. The literal issue is that the original copyright marking is missing/removed from the sculpture. You can alter a piece, but you cannot alter the copyright or remove it in any way. You also cannot reproduce any part of the sculpture in anyway accept to repair another piece.
That is the issue. The copyright symbol carved into the back of the base.
Actually, it is an issue whether or not the original copyright symbol is there or not. This has come up previously on the forum a few years back when people requested to alter PYO sculpts. It is still altering the original sculpt to the point of violating copyright law, even if the original copyright symbol was there. Unfortunately, like Kiya previously posted, Windstone has to protect their copyright in order to protect their livelihood, so they can continue to produce art and provide a living for themselves and their employees. It’s not being mean, it’s just the way it is and the way the laws are written.
I don’t see anything mean-spirited posted to this thread, but I’m sorry if someone was mean to you either of you two privately.
I am juts repeating what john told me. They still do not recomend altering them, but its is not a direct violation, but he said it was specifically because the copyright is missing. I never said it was mean. The concept is exactly that the Original copyright must remain, in-tact and un altered or moved in any way.
Recently married to the ever lovable BiPolarBear (little John)
www.weaselsoneasels.com | www.facebook.com/weaselsoneaselsAs seen on This is Life with Lisa Ling on CNN (2018) !
Always open for pyo commissions, repairs and fine artwork! Email me for current prices! awier(@)weaselsoneasels.comI think Windstone has had *so* much trouble fighting rip-off artists and thieves that they’re a little over-protective sometimes. I can’t blame them, really, it’s just a bit of a shame when a few fans get over-aggressive about it too. I’ve had the same thing happen to me, a few years back. It was, to be honest, about half the reason why I was gone from the forums for so long. I got some kind of nasty PMs from forum members over a repaint situation.
Very well said.
This issue has caused some confusion and some hurt feelings in the past. I do not speak directly for Windstone, but I know that upsetting other artists was NEVER the intention. Windstone has, sadly, had to take a somewhat aggressive approach to copyright at the advise of their copyright lawyer, because they make such a unique product (currently all from the hands of ONE artist, and so it has a very distinct Trade Dress) that has so frequently been ripped off. In the past, ripped off to the tune of many thousands of dollars. They are a small enough company that such infringements really hurt them, and so they have to be very careful about what they officially allow.
Giving written permission (which is what would happen if John said “okay” even via private email) to even one person to do something that can harm their copyright (even if the person never intends to harm Windstone!) opens the doors up for a lot of problems for them. We all know that we love Windstone and wouldn’t hurt them, but history has shown that there are a lot of other people out there that sure would take advantage of them if they could.
It bites, and I wish it were not so.
Sorry you got nasty PMs, though, SPark. 🙁
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comDragonstar76, I’m very sorry to hear that you have had backlash. Was this in private on the forums, via “PM”s? (Private Messages) If so, we do not permit harassment via PM. If you have had any problems feel free to contact me.
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comDragonstar76, I’m very sorry to hear that you have had backlash. Was this in private on the forums, via “PM”s? (Private Messages) If so, we do not permit harassment via PM. If you have had any problems feel free to contact me.
THIS is nice to know! I’ve not experienced it personally (thank goodness!), but it is nice to know that there is some recourse if one of us starts getting unpleasant PMs. Thank you.
You can check out my work on dA & Redbubble!
https://prezaurian.deviantart.com/
https://www.redbubble.com/people/prezaurian?ref=artist_title_nameDragonstar76, I’m very sorry to hear that you have had backlash. Was this in private on the forums, via “PM”s? (Private Messages) If so, we do not permit harassment via PM. If you have had any problems feel free to contact me.
THIS is nice to know! I’ve not experienced it personally (thank goodness!), but it is nice to know that there is some recourse if one of us starts getting unpleasant PMs. Thank you.
Huh, i never knew that. Wish I had early last year. o.O
Recently married to the ever lovable BiPolarBear (little John)
www.weaselsoneasels.com | www.facebook.com/weaselsoneaselsAs seen on This is Life with Lisa Ling on CNN (2018) !
Always open for pyo commissions, repairs and fine artwork! Email me for current prices! awier(@)weaselsoneasels.comThere is not much we can do if folks are unkind to you via means outside of the Windstone areas (such as email, eBay, etc) but if it’s happening in “our space”, it’s not allowed. I have a very busy year ahead of me but if you experience problems with any user harassing you or otherwise using inappropriate conduct, let us know. If I can’t be reached, you can try Kiya, and if neither of us can be reached let Susie know (I try to leave most of this stuff to Kiya and I so that Susie has time for stuff like shipping precious Windstones!).
While we can not handle or take responsibility for personal disputes between users, harassment is not allowed.Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.com
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