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Frankly I don’t think anybody’s response to her was hateful in the least. As a matter of fact I think we were all pretty restrained, considering and it didn’t look to me as though she was personally attacked.
If you want to be a vegetarian/vegan, that’s awesome for you! Go to town. But I’d appreciate it very much if you’d not wave it under my nose as though I am a terrible decision maker because I like steak. The cute story about the cow would have been just fine without the following sermon.
As Jennifer said, there are ways to approach a subject, and this isn’t one of them.
Lulu, on the contrary. Everyone here was quite polite, and there was no bullying. I am sad to say this, but as someone that has been on various internet platforms for talking about these issues.. ranging from internet forums, to Facebook, to blogs, and news articles– truly, most people react FAR more poorly than anything you saw here! I am talking about actual name-calling and bullying. It’s pretty ugly, and sad.
It is very unfair for you to cast judgement, especially when I take great care not to do the same in turn. You don’t know me, nor the immense efforts I have put into research into diet and food sourcing– food sourcing which includes not only ethical meat sourcing but ethical sourcing of vegetable matter (which actually poorly sourced vegetation on our plates is VERY environmentally harmful too), nor the lengths I go to to actually source ever bit of food we consume… from growing much of it myself, raising happy and very loved chickens, making connections with local farmers that raise animals and vegetables in sustainable, loving ways that put more back into the environment than they take from it. This is a very huge effort, and requires a lot of energy, time, money, and emotional investment.
These are all things you can not have known about me, and yet you assume myself and the others here are taking the easy way?That is why people have a knee-jerk and negative reaction to change. Not necessarily because of the idea of change, but the way they are approached is, frankly, insulting!
In the end, that is what turns people off of looking at new ideas, new ways of living– the insults and gulit-tripping!
It is an insult to suggest that we all need to ‘wake up’, or that we are taking some sort of ‘easy way’.
It is a guilt trip to come here and suggest that a few polite but opposing views are causing harm to someone, in this case, Kim. Of course no one here intended to upset her. I bet she didn’t intend to upset anyone else either. I thought we were having a pretty decent discussion, and I didn’t see any name-calling or shaming.When you do not personally know your audience– such as on an internet forum where we do not all personally know each other very well– you must not enter your teachings by assuming that they are the uneducated mass. You have to realize that we all have VERY different backgrounds. Some of us know all too well how terrible our current food system. Some of us might have an idea, but want to know more. Some might not know. Some make choices based not only on health, but etichs, even religion. Every person has this freedom.
Some people might know all of the truths of food industry, but are living near the poverty line, and make compromises that they wish they didn’t have to make in order to feed themselves or loved ones. This is a crummy situation to be in– and when you live this way, it HURTS to be told that you need to ‘wake up’ or to be called out upon your choices. I lived several years of my life eating the worst, most health-damaging foods out there, and I mostly knew it was terrible for me AND the planet, but I was so poor that I could not make any other choice at the time. Is it so easy to assume I was taking the easy way, then?
Some people might not be in this situation, but again.. you have to understand, no one likes to be insulted or guilt-tripped into making decisions. As someone that is HUGELY into being a food-soucing advocate, and an environmentalist, I know the WORST way to approach helping people in this regard is to lay casual insult or guilt-trips on them!! You will find that more will be open to your passion if you approach them with the same open mind that you hope they will have toward your thoughts.
I am sorry for coming across briskly. Rest assured I am not angry or am I trying to upset anyone. It’s just frustrating to see this sort of reaction. Thoughtful, compassionate approach of this subject is needed, because it is COMPLICATED, and everyone has different reasons for why they eat what they do. It’s wonderful to want to educate people. I want to educate people, too. It just requires a careful, thoughtful approach.
Lulu, Kim, just as you are trying to get people to understand your perspective (I do, actually!!), so I, too, am trying to explain mine, and why you got negative reactions here. This is not to bully you into silence, or to upset you. I respect your choices, and have personally made many of the same ones. I respect that you want to help people. All I am trying to say, with my long-winded post, is that you have to be careful in your approach. You can’t assume everyone is the uneducated masses. You have to appeal to everyone’s want to make themselves and the world better, in a positive way, without making them feel insulted or guilty. And even then you have to accept that not everyone will want to change, or that not everyone can, because of financial, religious, or whatever reasons. The world is a complicated place. I want it to be better too, with all my heart, but you have to INSPIRE people to do better, not guilt or insult them to be better.
In nearly every amazing case of someone trying to better themselves or the world, I have found that inspiration set along the biggest, LASTING changes in lifestyle! 🙂
If you want to talk more about this, or hear how I do it, feel free to email me… I’d be glad to discuss.
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comI actually thought your reply Jennifer was pretty reasonable and understanding. I don’t think my mom saw your reply but was referring to the other ones. Anyway I have received several personal messages now of support from very kind and open minded people that had a lot to say about what they thought about the whole thing and I was very appreciative to get their responses of support so thank you to those of you who did not take my post the wrong way. I realize now that especially when reading a written post, people will generally take the way it was worded to mean whatever kind of mood they are feeling at the time and I find a lot of times that people who react negatively are thinking in a negative or closed minded way so that they misinterpret what was said. I think all of our posts on here are good examples of misinterpreting the intent behind the message. I am a very straight forward person but was simply posting what I do as an example of what I feel is healthy for me because I do care about people and want to help them by leading as an example instead of just telling people what to do without doing it myself. The best example is to live what you believe in which is what I do and I was trying to express how I do that and what I learned.
Anyway I do see two distinctly different kinds of thinking here in regards to this and again it’s not that either is right or wrong but there is such a thing as truth versus fiction and unfortunately most people still believe things about their health, the food and medical industries that are simply fiction and they don’t realize it. You Jennifer are obviously very knowledgeable in your own right but it is quite clear who is not because closed minded people don’t want to learn or know the truth unfortunately. With that said, I have a whole network of people on facebook, over 1000 friends from all different walks of life, different ages, religions, jobs and networks and I post much more brutally honest things and controversial subjects on there and have posted hundreds over the years and I have to say in the 6 years I have been on facebook I have only ever had one negative response from any of those 1000 plus friends and that was from a nurse who was debating me on natural cancer cures mostly because she knew nothing about nutrition or alternative healing herself, which is another subject entirely I will not get into more here. I have never had one negative response on animal rights or health posts but only thanks and appreciation and people asking me for health advice which I happily spend hours writing to people about for free. So to have several negative responses here from a very small group of active forum users tells me that there is clearly something unusual about the ratio of positive to negative responses here and the knowledge of those posting. That’s all I have left to say.
Looking for rainbow or pink & teal grab bags!
I realize now that especially when reading a written post, people will generally take the way it was worded to mean whatever kind of mood they are feeling at the time and I find a lot of times that people who react negatively are thinking in a negative or closed minded way so that they misinterpret what was said.
There are ways, as Jennifer demonstrated, to make the same points you were attempting without triggering a negative response. There are certain words and tones in writing you should avoid if you don’t want to offend people. While of course some interpretation depends on the audience, much of it also depends on the author’s presentation.
…there is such a thing as truth versus fiction and unfortunately most people still believe things about their health, the food and medical industries that are simply fiction and they don’t realize it.
Or, we have done our own research and come to our own conclusions that differ from yours. Fact versus fiction is a very tricky thing to demonstrate in this area. For every resource you can find listing the benefits of veganism and touting the evil of meat and dairy, there are others showing their benefits. The research is NOT conclusive. We all have to reach our own decisions about what is right for us. How you eat is up to you and depends on a wide variety of factors.
For example – My husband has a disease that prevents him from eating many vegetables. If he does, it can trigger a flare up of his disease that can hospitalize him. The last time he had a flare, he had to take a combination of drugs to get it under control that deteriorated his health to the point that we’re just beginning to recover from it. He has very low calcium and needs to consume a lot of dairy in addition to taking supplements.
We’ve investigated and tried natural remedies and in his case, they DO. NOT. WORK. And frequently make things FAR worse.
Even if I did agree with you regarding the long-term effects of meat/dairy (which I don’t at all), the immediate effect of high vegetation intake on his health would not be worth it and would likely prevent him from getting old enough to worry about how meat and dairy might impact him.
You Jennifer are obviously very knowledgeable in your own right but it is quite clear who is not because closed minded people don’t want to learn or know the truth unfortunately.
Again, “truth” in this case has yet to be proven, conclusively, one way or the other. There is no “right” or “wrong” – there are varying approaches that work for different people in different situations. You have found the one that works for you, fantastic! I’m happy for you! However, calling people “close-minded”, “uneducated”, and a variety of other, very insulting, terms because we do not agree with you is quite incendiary.
There are a myriad of subjects that people are very polarized about – food sourcing and diet being one of them. While there may not be a “right” or a “wrong” choice for an individual, there is definitely a “right” and a “wrong” approach to how to voice your opinion on these subjects if you don’t want to deliberately offend people.
I respectfully think that the positions on this issue are clear, given the amount of explaining we have both tried to do.
Private discussion is certainly allowed, and encouraged if you wish to learn more about one another’s ways of life (I think we can always learn things from each other– every person you meet knows something you do not). But I just can’t foresee this thread resolving much beyond what it has.
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.com
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