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I am glad they are neutering them, its not about cornering the market its about preventing unwanted/unneeded litters!
ruffian wrote:I am glad they are neutering them, its not about cornering the market its about preventing unwanted/unneeded litters!
If people just stopped breeding these animals, there would be no more of them. I do not like altered animals unless there is a reason that they shouldnt be bred(health issue, etc). If that farm/lab were to get a disease and they all died… no more domestic fox? It does not help to have all eggs in one basket etc.
I dont condone the ‘mill’ breeders. What Im talking about is responsible people who know what they are doing who want to breed the best animals(the top 1% as the youtube video implies) and improve the breed/species. If those types of breeders dont exist then eventually the animal doesn’t exist. What the lab has done is created something… the domestic fox. And this could be lost for future generations if no one else continues it.
As for checking up on them… I dont suppose you remember the Ashera cat fiasco? The supposed serval/wildcat/bengal hybrid that people were trying to push for $20,000 when it turned out they were just Savannah cats(serval/bengals)? I just recommended being safe. 6000 is a lot to lose.
ruffian wrote:I am glad they are neutering them, its not about cornering the market its about preventing unwanted/unneeded litters!
Also, un-neutered foxes stink. Very musky little creatures.
Sechan wrote:ruffian wrote:I am glad they are neutering them, its not about cornering the market its about preventing unwanted/unneeded litters!
If people just stopped breeding these animals, there would be no more of them. I do not like altered animals unless there is a reason that they shouldnt be bred(health issue, etc). If that farm/lab were to get a disease and they all died… no more domestic fox? It does not help to have all eggs in one basket etc.
I dont condone the ‘mill’ breeders. What Im talking about is responsible people who know what they are doing who want to breed the best animals(the top 1% as the youtube video implies) and improve the breed/species. If those types of breeders dont exist then eventually the animal doesn’t exist. What the lab has done is created something… the domestic fox. And this could be lost for future generations if no one else continues it.
As for checking up on them… I dont suppose you remember the Ashera cat fiasco? The supposed serval/wildcat/bengal hybrid that people were trying to push for $20,000 when it turned out they were just Savannah cats(serval/bengals)? I just recommended being safe. 6000 is a lot to lose.
As they just barely started selling them as pets I would imagin they at some point would look into it, once they have more contacts, but to start right off the bat, nope dont blame them one bit. As they have been doing this for some 50 years and have yet to loose all of their foxes i would hazard they know what they are doing in preventing diseases. How many un-altered Ferrets have you seen in a pet shop? I have never ever seen one anywhere, yet there is certainly no shortage of them in the market place and rescues. This way they can guarantee that no one is a)crossing their foxes with wild foxes and b)that no one else can sell wild caught fox pups (cubs?) as Siberian Foxes. Look at the fiasco that is the “Labradoodle” gimmick.
ruffian wrote:Sechan wrote:ruffian wrote:I am glad they are neutering them, its not about cornering the market its about preventing unwanted/unneeded litters!
If people just stopped breeding these animals, there would be no more of them. I do not like altered animals unless there is a reason that they shouldnt be bred(health issue, etc). If that farm/lab were to get a disease and they all died… no more domestic fox? It does not help to have all eggs in one basket etc.
I dont condone the ‘mill’ breeders. What Im talking about is responsible people who know what they are doing who want to breed the best animals(the top 1% as the youtube video implies) and improve the breed/species. If those types of breeders dont exist then eventually the animal doesn’t exist. What the lab has done is created something… the domestic fox. And this could be lost for future generations if no one else continues it.
As for checking up on them… I dont suppose you remember the Ashera cat fiasco? The supposed serval/wildcat/bengal hybrid that people were trying to push for $20,000 when it turned out they were just Savannah cats(serval/bengals)? I just recommended being safe. 6000 is a lot to lose.
As they just barely started selling them as pets I would imagin they at some point would look into it, once they have more contacts, but to start right off the bat, nope dont blame them one bit. As they have been doing this for some 50 years and have yet to loose all of their foxes i would hazard they know what they are doing in preventing diseases. How many un-altered Ferrets have you seen in a pet shop? I have never ever seen one anywhere, yet there is certainly no shortage of them in the market place and rescues. This way they can guarantee that no one is a)crossing their foxes with wild foxes and b)that no one else can sell wild caught fox pups (cubs?) as Siberian Foxes. Look at the fiasco that is the “Labradoodle” gimmick.
There’s enough overpopulation of unwanted pets…and irresponsible breeding practices…that quite honestly, I think it’s a responsible move on the part of the fox breeders to insure every animal that leaves is safely spayed or neutered. In the area I live in…I’ve seen puppy mills, and once a ferret mill…where people will breed whatever two animals are opposite sex, without ever checking if they might be littermates, often inbreeding to the detriment of the offspring, having horrible consequences. Too many people think “oh, I bought a boy and a girl ferret at “X” petstore…so now I’m just going to let them do their thing and sell off the profits” not truly thinking of the animal’s welfare, just their pocketbook. This breeder is ensuring that the responsibility for animals they care for and breed stays in THEIR hands….which as far as I can see, they seem to truly care about the welfare of these animals.
Yes…I totally agree $6k is ALOT for a pet, of ANY sort. But, that’s coming from someone who wouldnt pay that on any animal because I’d rather spend it on my children….so I have my financial priorities elsewhere. Everyone has their own set of financial priorities, and a responsibility to themselves to know what they can afford on what. I’ve seen people spend more than that on windstones…granted, over several pieces, or some will spend that making their car or truck look “cooler”, or even some fancy computer gadget that does nothing for their life at all…….but in any case, if someone chooses to spend that amount on an animal that may very well be a loving companion should they take the time to do the research and provide a loving home for it…I will be the last to critisize. People make money, people spend money…and the circle of life goes on.
purplecat wrote:There’s enough overpopulation of unwanted pets…and irresponsible breeding practices…that quite honestly, I think it’s a responsible move on the part of the fox breeders to insure every animal that leaves is safely spayed or neutered.
THIS. It shows responsibility to have a fixed animal. All around. Any unfixed animal that may get free can produce numbers that are unthinkable. If a fixed animal got loose, there would be zero threat of breeding and unwanted animals.
I would never have an unfixed animal. This is something I believe in with extreme stubbornness. I feel that it’s the animal owners job to fix an animal if they choose to have one.
Now if only people would get fixed.
ghostndragon wrote:Kujacker wrote:Now if only people would get fixed.
Heeheeeheee
XD XD XD XD XD XD
Kujacker wrote:THIS. It shows responsibility to have a fixed animal. All around. Any unfixed animal that may get free can produce numbers that are unthinkable. If a fixed animal got loose, there would be zero threat of breeding and unwanted animals.
I would never have an unfixed animal. This is something I believe in with extreme stubbornness. I feel that it’s the animal owners job to fix an animal if they choose to have one.
Now if only people would get fixed.
Well, mammals at least. 🙂
I wish I could get fixed…
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My art: featherdust.comI breed reptiles. As a breeder, I think the sentiment that “All pets should get fixed” is just silly. If they were all fixed, there would be no more of them.
I do not in any way shape or form condone animal ‘mills’. Im not talking about them. They breed with no regard for genetics, lineage or purpose other that to create as many of an animal as possible for profit. True breeders only use the best animals for breeding, and do not breed anything less(they also are quite aware that if you breed in this way, its not something you can profit on. It takes a true interest in bettering a species to breed this way). If those (less than perfect genetically) animals are fixed, it’s no loss. But to take an animal that could pass on 98th percentile genetics and sterilize it does nothing to help the breed or species.
An owner that doesnt want ‘surprise’ litters should get their pet fixed, true. But what if I wanted to breed the domestic fox? Not to charge $6000 and profit, but for an honest love of foxes and to continue the process of domestication?
I do not think any one here is talking about a case that some one wants to legitimately breed an animal. Breeders are very important, reliable breeders are invaluable.
In the case of animals like this, isn’t there a different cost or paperwork for buying animals for breeding? Most of the Savanah cat, Bangals, and other specialty cat and dog breeders I have looked up REQUIRE you to fix the animals you buy from them unless you buy for breeding, then thier prices were listed as different and some required you to show you had a breeders liscence.
I know reptile and bird breeding and selling seems to be very different from most mamal breeders.
From what I read with the cat breeders, the liscence and difference in fee was to make sure they were selling to some one who was going to be a reliable breeder, and also to keep the vallue of thier blood lines intact.
So I wonder if the fox place has a breeders purchase option or if it is absolutely mandatory that all purchases are fixed.
KoishiiKitty wrote:I do not think any one here is talking about a case that some one wants to legitimately breed an animal. Breeders are very important, reliable breeders are invaluable.
In the case of animals like this, isn’t there a different cost or paperwork for buying animals for breeding? Most of the Savanah cat, Bangals, and other specialty cat and dog breeders I have looked up REQUIRE you to fix the animals you buy from them unless you buy for breeding, then thier prices were listed as different and some required you to show you had a breeders liscence.
I know reptile and bird breeding and selling seems to be very different from most mamal breeders.
From what I read with the cat breeders, the liscence and difference in fee was to make sure they were selling to some one who was going to be a reliable breeder, and also to keep the vallue of thier blood lines intact.
So I wonder if the fox place has a breeders purchase option or if it is absolutely mandatory that all purchases are fixed.
It’s also possible that there may be some limitations due to importation as well.
siberakh1 wrote:KoishiiKitty wrote:I do not think any one here is talking about a case that some one wants to legitimately breed an animal. Breeders are very important, reliable breeders are invaluable.
In the case of animals like this, isn’t there a different cost or paperwork for buying animals for breeding? Most of the Savanah cat, Bangals, and other specialty cat and dog breeders I have looked up REQUIRE you to fix the animals you buy from them unless you buy for breeding, then thier prices were listed as different and some required you to show you had a breeders liscence.
I know reptile and bird breeding and selling seems to be very different from most mamal breeders.
From what I read with the cat breeders, the liscence and difference in fee was to make sure they were selling to some one who was going to be a reliable breeder, and also to keep the vallue of thier blood lines intact.
So I wonder if the fox place has a breeders purchase option or if it is absolutely mandatory that all purchases are fixed.
It’s also possible that there may be some limitations due to importation as well.
I bet there are many limitations. For one it is Russia and I am sure it is being funded by the Russian Government. It would not surprise me if or when they end this research they would destroy the remaining foxes that are not adopted. If you watch the video they have also breed foxes that are super aggressive. This genome research fascinates me.
They took a baby from an aggressive mother and put it with a domestic mother and the baby grew up aggressive. This is Nature vs Nurture. It seems mammals are born with genes that affect their personality. So it seems I really might have inherited my dad’s Irish temper.
Not only does it pose the question of Nature Vs Nurture but instead of domestication taking thousands of years it seems to only take decades. Truly fascinating.
Griffinlover wrote:I bet there are many limitations. For one it is Russia and I am sure it is being funded by the Russian Government. It would not surprise me if or when they end this research they would destroy the remaining foxes that are not adopted. If you watch the video they have also breed foxes that are super aggressive. This genome research fascinates me.
They took a baby from an aggressive mother and put it with a domestic mother and the baby grew up aggressive. This is Nature vs Nurture. It seems mammals are born with genes that affect their personality. So it seems I really might have inherited my dad’s Irish temper.
Not only does it pose the question of Nature Vs Nurture but instead of domestication taking thousands of years it seems to only take decades. Truly fascinating.
I agree completely! I have always wondered how dogs came from wolves, it’s never made sense or connected with me why they have such different shaped bodies, colors, etc. Watching that video may not have explained exactly why all that happens, but it was definitely an eye opener on how fast it does happen.
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