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Hi Etruscan and Scathach,
Both of your comments are totally excellent; and thank you both for posting them so it can help us all be protected as both seller and buyer.
Thank You Hugs,Good Luck, Matty!
Hope everything turns out for you!IN SEARCH OF MY NEXT GRAILS:
Black Peacock & Butternut Adult Poads
Kickstarter 'Rainbow Tiger' Bantam Dragon*~*~*~* Ela_Hara: The DragonKeeper *~*~*~*
*** Come visit me on deviantArt at http://ela-hara.deviantart.comSorry I missed this until now.
Mary is correct, we can’t exactly ban someone via IP, as IP is not static (and if someone really wanted to get around it, there are ways). The stronger forms of authentication are indeed used mostly by financial institutions and are outside of the scope of a small company like Windstone. This means if we ban or block someone that has broken rules, there is a chance they could make a new account here. If anyone reasonably suspects someone of creating a new account here as a way to get around being banned, I ask that you please let one of us (me, John, [or Susie in a pinch but she is very busy with orders!]) know, especially if you have any evidence. Ban evasion is not permitted (though is sometimes hard to prove).
If a member is indeed scamming others via the forum (classifieds, PMs, or on the forum), please do send us evidence. John makes the final call on these situations, but we have banned people in the past. Scamming is not permitted!
It’s been explained to me that Windstone can not legally become involved at all in the feedback list, but again if someone is scamming someone else out of money or items, we do care, and if verified, we have historically taken action to remove said person(s) from our community.
Matty, if you do not have your situation resolved shortly to your satisfaction, I think you are well within your right to open a Paypal dispute on the transaction.
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comFirst off thank you everyone for your feedback. It makes me feel supported and appreciated as a part of this community.
I did start the dispute process with paypal. The first thing is they have me email the seller which a copy is given to them. The seller did get back to me the next day. I will sum up the message she sent. She informed me that while she was able to log into Windstones website, she claims the site was unable to let her see her messages. So she did not get my message. She also said she mailed out my item, and when she got home, she would provide me with the tracking information. This message was sent Saturday morning.
It is now Tuesday evening and no tracking information has been sent.
I am baffled.. and confused. So lets be realistic here. This is me venting now..
If I was a seller, had an item sitting in my house that a buyer paid for in full one month ago.. and after a couple of inquiries sent by the buyer as to when I was mailing out their item had been sent to me.. I would update them with some sort of explanation.. or at least an apology for the continued delay. Especially if I said I was mailing it out on a certain day and could not follow through. Even if I couldn’t see my Windstone messages. Especially considering we have each others email information. It also seems like an excuse that she is unable to see her messages on this site.. but log in to the site still. That seems odd.
Another point I have that I find odd. Paypal is now involved in getting a copy of our messages. The messages are delivered through paypals resolution centre. This is the time when the seller replies. What is really odd.. is she took the time to reply in a couple of sentences, but is not able at the time of replying to include the most key part of information.. the tracking number.
I have mailed out a couple of items for members here for a Christmas swap and the tadpoad swap. When I mailed them out I was given a tracking number at that moment. It was emailed to me.. and I was also given a print out with the number on it. Why she didn’t include it in her message from the start and telling me she would have it to me later that night.. has me thinking she did not mail it out yet like she said she did on Saturday morning. She is after all emailing me at the time.. she just had to look at the email sent to her with the tracking number while she messaged me.
I just don’t see things adding up. I cant tell if the seller is scamming me.. or just extremely flakey and lazy about mailing out items. Either way I am concerned. I have decided that I will wait until either this Friday or Monday for the seller to provide the tracking number. If she can not.. then I will continue on the next step, which is Paypal contacting her and stepping in to get my money refunded. Again not the solution I hope I will need to resort to.
I have no personal experience with the Paypal dispute system (knock wood), but I would suggest that Friday is the VERY latest you should wait before going to the next step. You certainly don’t owe the seller more than a week to do what she said she would do. Good luck!
I recently went through the PayPal dispute process and their minimum waiting period is four complete days. I agree with etruscan. You’ve certainly been extremely patient and have given this seller more than enough time. Makes me wonder how that seller would like it if this was done to them. This is a very egregious thing to do and totally unacceptable.
Good Luck.
IN SEARCH OF MY NEXT GRAILS:
Black Peacock & Butternut Adult Poads
Kickstarter 'Rainbow Tiger' Bantam Dragon*~*~*~* Ela_Hara: The DragonKeeper *~*~*~*
*** Come visit me on deviantArt at http://ela-hara.deviantart.com<p style=”text-align: left;”>
I recently went through the PayPal dispute process and their minimum waiting period is four complete days. I agree with etruscan. You’ve certainly been extremely patient and have given this seller more than enough time. Makes me wonder how that seller would like it if this was done to them. This is a very egregious thing to do and totally unacceptable. Good Luck.
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Agreed. It’s stealing in plain sight. If only I knew who the thief of my woof was…Matty if you could pm me with the name of the seller I could provide you with some info if it might be the same person I dealt with before. It sounds like the same story I got years back when the person I traded with told me she left my tracking number in the car and would get back to me with it the next day and then I didn’t hear anything back for weeks. Her excuse was she couldn’t check messages on here or didn’t have internet access as she was travelling through the mountains but she was caught red handed when I found her eBay account and saw she had been on there making several purchases the whole time she claimed she had no internet access and I messaged her on there. At the same time people started posting on here she did the same thing to them and there were several people she promised to mail stuff to that had been waiting weeks to hear back from her. When Windstone got involved she suddenly sent everyone messages with tracking info and I believe most of us got our items after that but it took months. I have a feeling that is is probably the same person who changed their forum name on here so maybe we can finally stopped her now if she is doing it again.
Looking for rainbow or pink & teal grab bags!
Also please once known (old WS forum name and/or new one), please please make sure that dragonmedley is made aware so she can update her Feedback Lists so others do not fall victim.
IN SEARCH OF MY NEXT GRAILS:
Black Peacock & Butternut Adult Poads
Kickstarter 'Rainbow Tiger' Bantam Dragon*~*~*~* Ela_Hara: The DragonKeeper *~*~*~*
*** Come visit me on deviantArt at http://ela-hara.deviantart.comMatty, Paypal should resolve in your favor if the item is not shipped in a timely manner. I agree; I would not wait longer than Friday, though the choice is yours of course. I think you are being very reasonable and patient!
As an aside, and this is a message for everyone (not aimed at Matty!) It’s important to determine what the most reliable methods of communication for you are. Some people do like the PM system. I know some people like PM systems on other pages too (such as facebook, etc). Just remember that if your messages are being hosted on a private site that you don’t pay to use (e.g. Windstone PMs etc), that if the site suffers a catastrophic data loss or other technical problem, there is always a chance your PMs could be inaccessible or even lost. Always try to back up important messages locally either on your computer or device. If you do a lot of dealing, it might be worthwhile to get a ‘business’ email address that you can more easily back up. Even free email servies, such as google, are easy to back up with a client such as Thunderbird (also free), so that you have a local (meaning on your personal computer) copy. I find that this helps prevent a lot of miscommunication when I legitimate miss PMs. For example, I have a hard time with Facebook’s private messages getting to me, so I always ask people to email. If I am doing business with someone, the last thing I want to do is miss several of their messages, if I can prevent that from happening.
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comHey Matty, just looking for an update. I’ve been thinking about your situation. Also sent you a PM, have a look.
Another way to protect ourselves, on top of asking for references and actually checking them, would be to have the seller send you an invoice. This way you get the name of the account holder, and can ask your trusted forum members, if they are familiar. I am thinking about the repeat offender (we’re all thinking it) who changes their username to circumvent their negative feedback, and who preys on new forum members. I know you can just have someone else send the invoice, and no one here is the wiser…but it’s going to get more and more difficult for that criminal (call it what it is) to pull a fast one on an unsuspecting newbie to the forum. There will always be new ways to steal from people, but that’s where Paypal comes in. All we can do is take the best precautions, and hope the buyer’s gut is telling them something before it’s too late.
So to recap … As a buyer, (I think) you should protect yourself by:
1. Makes sure you ask for pics (don’t get caught up in the excitement…ask for detailed pics). I can relate to this. I was offered a retired dragon and sent the display side picture. I was so excited, that I just bought it pretty much sight, unseen. I got it…and I think you guys can imagine the rest. Never again. To be clear, this was from someone I thought was a long time member, as they showcased a HUGE collection. It fooled me, it fooled Matty. I do acknowledge, that it was pretty reckless on my part (and that’s being kind, lol!!) Lesson learned. Movin’ on!
2. Check the member generated feedback list. It’s easier to change your username, than it is to face negative feedback, so this step is not fail-safe.
3. Ask the seller (if they are unfamiliar to you) for references AND CHECK THEM. If they can’t provide references, treat it like you would when buying on ebay, and make sure details of the transaction are well documented, and have faith in the paypal resolution centre, if it doesn’t end well.
4. Ask the seller to SEND you a Paypal invoice (vs you initiating it by sending money for goods/services). Check the name on the paypal invoice with the same people who were given as references, before you pay it. In the comment section of the invoice, indicate details like the sculpt/colour and what your shipping details should look like. Example: Thank you for selling your copper patina fledgling, in MINT condition – shipped USPS Priority International, insured for $109, awaiting tracking number.
5. Once the item is received, take a video of the item being opened. This is two fold… it’s especially important if the integrity of the outer box appears compromised. You’re going to want to go after the mail service, and the video will help support your claim if the piece is damaged. It’s also important when there’s nothing wrong with the outer box, the piece may have already been damaged, and you’ll be making your claim with paypal instead.
6. Depending on the outcome of your purchase, make sure you leave feedback accordingly. It may help someone else down the road.
As a seller, you should protect yourself by:
1. Take a 360 video of the item you are selling, and continue recording as you box it up. As mentioned previously, the video will be date/time stamped. If you are blamed for a broken piece, that video will come in handy when the buyer tries to get their money back for something they broke, or something that was damaged during shipping.
I consider myself to be overly cautious when I package a Windstone, and it happened to me one time, where my buyer received a damaged piece. I could take no blame for it, neither could they, and this left us in limbo. Two seemingly honest people, who won’t take the blame, can only turn to the mail courier … When we’re selling OOAKs, nobody wants to be out of money, out of sculpt, so let’s be extra careful.
I got a bit off topic, because Matty’s not dealing with a damaged piece … but overall, I think these precautions might prevent this from happening to someone else.
I think the one thing that will hold strong, is reaching out to your forum friends, and asking “Hey, have you ever dealt with…x…I am in the process of buying from them. They sent me an invoice, and this is the name on the account….x…, can you tell me anything about how they do business?”
@Jennifer, when a person is banned from the forum, can their real name be published with their feedback?Wanted: "Dragon Fruit" Male Dragon ~ "Fire Berry", "Paradise", "Dragon Fruit", "Tie Dye" ~ The brighter, the better!
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