About repaints

[drag0nfeathers]

I removed most of the pics from my thread but I need a mod I think to edit out the ones in the first post…I tried to kill all the pics but I can’t get the first post!

sounds to me like John will be taking care of it at some point. I wouldn’t worry

Got a busted Windstone?
drag0nfeathersdesign@gmail.com
*OPEN for repairs*

*SEEKING GRAILS*
Arc-en-ciel Emperor
Siphlophis Male Dragon
Calypso Hatching Empress
Ivory Moss Sitting Baby Kirin
Tattoo Mother Kirin
Emerald Tabby Male Griffin
Tie Dye + Orion Hatching Royalty
Indigo Rockfish + Flame Tabby Little Rock Dragons
Dragon Quail + Obsidian Frost Old Warriors
Betta Sun Dragon + Male Dragon
Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry Dragons

[fatalbeauty]

I removed most of the pics from my thread but I need a mod I think to edit out the ones in the first post…I tried to kill all the pics but I can’t get the first post!

sounds to me like John will be taking care of it at some point. I wouldn’t worry

I was trying to edit out the others and it bumped up, I hope no one gets the wrong idea that I was trying to bump it, it was my edits that did it!

4 things I'm looking for:
1. Mother Meerkat
2. production color Sitting Young Oriental dragons to be made in more colors besides VF, Brimstone would be awesome!
3. Female Griffin – Siamese with White
4. September Raffle Prize 2022 AHD Male Griffin

[drag0nfeathers]

Don’t worry, the same thing happened to the ones I edited too… I couldn’t find them all, but whatever I couldn’t find is dead and buried in the “old” forum so I think they’re pretty much history.

I’m sure John or Jennifer will understand you had the best intentions to try and remove the photos.

Got a busted Windstone?
drag0nfeathersdesign@gmail.com
*OPEN for repairs*

*SEEKING GRAILS*
Arc-en-ciel Emperor
Siphlophis Male Dragon
Calypso Hatching Empress
Ivory Moss Sitting Baby Kirin
Tattoo Mother Kirin
Emerald Tabby Male Griffin
Tie Dye + Orion Hatching Royalty
Indigo Rockfish + Flame Tabby Little Rock Dragons
Dragon Quail + Obsidian Frost Old Warriors
Betta Sun Dragon + Male Dragon
Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry Dragons

[Rusti]

Oh wow… I’m not sure how to approach putting my opinion on this mess into words without ruffling more feathers.

Suffice it to say, as an artist myself, I understand getting attached to my work, or wanting to make something broken and ugly pretty again but…

..what is so hard about ‘please don’t, here are these other sculpts, just for that!”?

I…really. No offense to any of you who like to do repaints, but – honestly? Please tell me what’s so hard about this? I’m confused! Why does it have to get nasty and tangled at all?

[Hannah]

Honestly, I think all that needs to be said has.

People have opinions on one side, and people have opinions on the other, and no one is going to change anyone’s mind. Whats the point in discussing further something that will only spiral further into hurt feelings and anger?

You know why I repaint things? Because it’s my opinion that there’s nothing wrong with it. Why do you need any more of an answer? Why do you even need an answer at all? I do it, I’ll likely continue to do it, and you won’t be able to change my mind. Bringing it up in an accusatory way is only going to get people defensive and angry.

I’d be happy if people just let this die – John’s made his decision about pictures on the forum, the law will make it’s decision (and kind of has) about doing it in general. This arguing has caused enough rifts and damage as is.

Commission spots are currently closed! Please message me for details.
Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!

[fatalbeauty]

Don’t worry, the same thing happened to the ones I edited too… I couldn’t find them all, but whatever I couldn’t find is dead and buried in the “old” forum so I think they’re pretty much history.

I’m sure John or Jennifer will understand you had the best intentions to try and remove the photos.

hope so…

edit: fixed….

4 things I'm looking for:
1. Mother Meerkat
2. production color Sitting Young Oriental dragons to be made in more colors besides VF, Brimstone would be awesome!
3. Female Griffin – Siamese with White
4. September Raffle Prize 2022 AHD Male Griffin

[drag0nfeathers]

I totally agree Hannah. Just let this topic die… nobody has ever won and will never win this argument. It’s been brought up so many times in the past with no real resolution. No matter what anyone says, I’ll keep breathing new life into a broken sculpture, Windstone or otherwise if I like it enough to do so.

Keep in mind, some people don’t have the money for a special ebay piece and this is the only way some collectors can have something “special” for themselves. All the people that do the repaints can do is continue to care for the company and mark things appropriately as they are not to be confused with a real “official” Windstone paint job.

However, with how criminal we are made to feel, it’s a wonder why we even care so much to do so in the first place.

You know… on a truly personal note and at the risk of being scolded…when I was a kid my dream was to paint Windstones. Ever since the first Male Emerald dragon I saw I knew “Someday I’m going to MAKE these!” Yea well, as many dreams go that never came true and after getting blown off after numerous attempts to make that dream a reality… I just make due now and that’s all. If I have to hate my job and hate where I live at LEAST I can pretend I get to paint Windstones. Even if it’s just for myself and my own delusion and sanity sometimes! It’s one of the FEW things I can do to feel good about myself and my abilities and one of the few things I think I’m good at! I don’t care if “this is for painting” and “this is for not painting” If I feel so inclined I’ll paint a giant middle finger on the side of my house for angry motorists to appreciate and children to point and giggle at… at least I care enough to TRY and keep the company in mind when doing it is all I am saying. None of us are trying to hurt anyone and we’re doing our best to not start any wars over this. If Windstone wants me to stop that bad then they can give me a job. I’d paint the damn things for free if I could.

With that, I’m done in this thread! I have to walk away before I get myself into trouble. I promised myself to shut my mouth because I just get myself into a big mess because this topic always gets me riled up! >_< Gah!

Got a busted Windstone?
drag0nfeathersdesign@gmail.com
*OPEN for repairs*

*SEEKING GRAILS*
Arc-en-ciel Emperor
Siphlophis Male Dragon
Calypso Hatching Empress
Ivory Moss Sitting Baby Kirin
Tattoo Mother Kirin
Emerald Tabby Male Griffin
Tie Dye + Orion Hatching Royalty
Indigo Rockfish + Flame Tabby Little Rock Dragons
Dragon Quail + Obsidian Frost Old Warriors
Betta Sun Dragon + Male Dragon
Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry Dragons

[Arlla]

🙁

Just remember, guys. Everyone in this community is loved, and valued by Windstone. How could we not be? Without the people who love and collect Melody’s work, Windstone wouldn’t exist. It isn’t anyone’s intention to hurt feelings here. John works WAY too hard to keep Windstone going, to bring these beautiful pieces of art into the world and into our homes. He and Melody both are tireless in their efforts for this little business. And whatever Windstone’s official position is on anything, it really is just an effort of love to keep the Windstone family going. Not just John, Melody, and their family, but all of us together.

Is it the right thing to do? Who am I to say. Has it been executed with grace and diplomacy? Can’t say this thread is very pretty to look at. But what it is in it’s heart is John’s and everyone’s best effort to do their best by Melody and their business.

No body in the company wants to hurt anyone here. I can’t tell you how upset certain employees get when they inadvertently upset customers! They really do care about us, and how we feel about Windstone.

I’m not saying you can’t disagree with certain decisions or policies, or argue that something just isn’t fair (believe me, guys, I have opinions of my own, and I voice them to my bosses MORE THAN THEY’D LIKE I’m sure) But please, just remember, all this is is an attempt to keep Windstone on it’s feet, protected as well as possible against even unintended obstacles, so that it can keep bringing the beauty of Melody’s art into the world.

"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
-J R R Tolkien

[chrisherself]

So am I absorbing this information correctly? It seems that Windstone’s ‘official’ stance kind of has to be this (whether it’s a happy solution or not):

– If you have a broken piece, and you can’t repair it because it’s too broken or too complex a scheme to reproduce, you either KEEP IT AS IS, or DESTROY IT. –

I agree that repaints are troublesome legally, but I am sorry, I am never, ever going to throw away a Windstone just because the repair is beyond my talents. I’m bummed that just because I refuse to throw away a statue, or have it sit there all bashed up, I’m actually violating a policy. I understand this from a legal standpoint, but from a collector’s standpoint it just stinks.

People are going to do it whether Windstone bans it or not. And the collectors who do it and really care about the company will always go great lengths to clearly mark their pieces as repaints.

BTW I have not done any repaints to date, but I do have a couple really broken pieces that were slated for it ‘someday’. I’ve been keeping an eye out for discussions about repaints so I could be sure in the future to go about it in the most respectful and least troublesome way for Windstone.

Sorry to beat what’s apparently a dead horse, but this is all relevant and useful information for me as a relatively new collector. It would be helpful to have a sticky, or a section on the Windstone site somewhere, where we can reference the ‘Official Rules/FAQ Regarding Repaints’ and maybe prevent threads like this from sporadically recurring.

I truly understand Windstone’s official stance on repaints. But I do see honest, well-intentioned collectors who do them CRAVING a rule structure that acknowledges that repaints will probably always exist.

If we simply can’t bring ourselves to throw away these pieces, what about giving us a set of rules to follow? The collectors who care about the company always will.

[Hannah]

Chris – maybe this will help:

From these two quotes, this is how I understand it –

I just had a short conversation with Alan, our copyright attorney, and we will continue to discuss this next week but I believe I had misunderstood, or misremembered, a discussion we had a few years ago and I am probably not correct in what I first posted. LupusLunae has probably got it right (and thanks for jumping in Lupus!). My apologies to all, especially Pam, if this is the case, and it does seem like it is.

So if Lupus was probably right, this is what Lupus said:

In the United States, artistic (visual) works have moral rights attached to them. For sculptures, to have the extra protection of moral rights, they need to exist in a single form or 200 or less limited editions copies that are numbered and signed by the artist (Section 106a of the Copyright Act). Most Windstones are produced in higher quantities than this. Since most Windstones don’ qualify for moral rights protection, I could spray paint it, roll it in kitty litter, smash it into a million pieces, take a picture of this, and display the picture as a new creation. If anyone is interested in this, there was a great case with a man making art out of mutilated Barbie dolls…more information upon request! Changing a piece of art (or a book, a picture in photoshop) into something new does fall under derivative works, but with the four factors of fair use, people repainting for private use are safe.

Meaning – repaints (at least ones being done for private use) are legally ok.

BUT – as far as John is concerned, even if this IS true, he doesn’t want people posting pics of them on the forum:

I am for removing re-paints from the forum and making it policy to not allow the posting of production re-paints, period. The PYO’s are designed and intended to be owner painted, sold, whatever and I don’t see any benefit to Melody or Windstone in the posting of images of re-paints of our production pieces.

If I understand all this correctly, it means that repaints are not ILLEGAL per se, but John still doesn’t want them on the forums.

Edited: Just to say that of course I cannot speak for Windstone so this is just what seems apparent to me from the responses in this thread – and also to say that it WOULD be wonderful to have a clear cut definition on this, but I’m not sure that Windstone could possibly tell us “yes” or “no” either way. It seems like the law that protects these types of things MIGHT not apply to Windstone, but as Lupus said, it’s often decided on a case-by-case basis, so it might be really hard for Windstone to tell us legally that it’s OK or not.

I think in the end, despite what may or may not be legal (note that I am not getting into the moral points here since they honestly have no place in this particular conclusion), John would prefer that we do NOT post pictures of repaints on the forum. I will respect that.

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Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!

[Azurielle]

I’ve read it all. I’ve got my opinions. I don’t believe in throwing anything fixable away, no matter how you have to “fix” it. But all I really wanted to say was thank you all who have repaired for me, especially you, dragonfeathers! Thank you all for whom I have bought PYO’s, and production pieces. I love them! Thank you windstone for being the nicest forum I am a part of. Thank you all for being wonderful and creative. Thank you melody, john susie, pam, jennifer, and all the rest for being the nicest company I have every dealt with! Thank you, and all of us try not to be too hurt over all this, no matter what your opinion, stance, or belief is. 🙂

Keeper of the Fledgings

[chrisherself]

Thanks for the clarification Hannah. 🙂 I’ll keep an eye on this and see what John comes back with in a week as far as rules go.

I love repaints when they serve the purpose of giving life to a formerly ruined piece, but agree that allowing photos of them on the forum is a subtle acknowledgement that they’re ok.

I’ll miss the photos. 🙁

But, this is all understandable. 🙂

[Andrea]

I’ve been reading this thread and I don’t see where anything is getting ugly or out of hand. I see people having and discussing a touchy subject without throwing stones.

I agree with who ever said “what part of please don’t, don’t you get.”
Yes, Windstone is a business, but I don’t see many businesses that treat it’s customers like Windstone does.

If you want to treat Windstone like a business and take the mentality of “It’s mine, I’ll do what I want.” Then don’t expect Windstone as a company to do all the extras for it’s customers.
If it’s not a legal matter, then it’s certainly a RESPECT matter. It’s like saying “Sorry Melody and John, I couldn’t care less that you don’t want me to repaint. It’s mine and I will do what I want. By the way, what’s the September raffle prize?”

There’s a lot of things I could do in life because I want to, but I don’t because it’s not right. Treating people with respect and following the Golden Rule doesn’t seem to be happening much these days. It’s really sad.

[Hannah]

I just need to say that Melody has never expressed how she personally feels about the subject, so bringing up how Melody FEELS about something, and saying that it’s disrespectful to counter her wishes is a moot point, since she has never said anything to us about her personal opinion.

The only things John is talking about is LEGALITY. This has nothing to do with disrespecting Windstone – these are LEGAL matters. It’s entirely possible that Melody and or John would have totally different stances on the matter if the legal thing wasn’t involved.

If you think I am disrespecting Windstone by taking a broken and trashed piece and bringing new life to it, lets take this to PMs. I don’t understand how people are not getting that this has turned into something that has to do with the LAW and not respecting or disrespecting Melody and Windstone as a whole.

I’m done bumping this thread. Ghostndragon and I were just talking about how funny it is that we want to just let it die and we are all just bumping it over and over – yeah, I’m totally guilty! But when I feel like people are totally misunderstanding me, I just HAVE to say something. If you still don’t get what I’m saying and you wish to try to prove your point further to me, feel free to PM me.

Adios!

Commission spots are currently closed! Please message me for details.
Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!

[Pam]

I think you guys might be taking things a little too personal… I doubt anyone at Windstone is going to be offended, insulted, or angry with you if you repaint one of your Windstones. We don’t look at your repaints and think “OMG, how dare she deface our beautiful dragon, and after everything we have done for her!” I have NEVER seen anyone at Windstone act like that!

Quotes from John’s last post:

Does that mean we want to allow or disallow posting of re-painted pieces? We really don’t want to encourage re-painting…re-painting of production pieces is, for us, a royal pain when these pieces are re-sold and confusion takes hold in the re-sale market.

I am for removing re-paints from the forum and making it policy to not allow the posting of production re-paints, period.

All he says is that Windstone doesn’t ENCOURAGE repainting because of the problems it can cause, and please DON’T post repaint pictures.

—

As others have said before, if you choose to repaint a Windstone, please do this at least:
Mark it on the pad very clearly as
repainted by [insert name]
If room allows, you could even add something like this:
(original factory color was: [insert color])

Additionally, keep written documentation that clearly explains the situation, and that you, the repainter, are not affiliated with Windstone in any way.

You could go further, and attach a tag to your repaint, explaining everything. And put something on it like “Please don’t remove this tag!” Print out a small typed paragraph explaining things, cut it out “laminate” it on both sides with clear packing tape, punch a hole on one corner, and then tie it to part of the piece where it won’t slip off, like the holes in male/female unicorn manes (if such a place exists). For string, I like to use elastic silver or gold string because it doesn’t break easily if accidentally pulled, and it looks slightly more “official” than sewing yarn!

I don’t know if actually replacing the pad, as some have done, is a good idea since sometimes, our only way of identifying a windstone is by the pad.

[Author]

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