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Whelp.. I guess I just better stay out of this thread at this point, because not only do I disagree with some things being said, but I’m starting to feel like I am being made out as a criminal.
It’s a serious shame that this issue is so polarizing, and that people are taking it to personal levels. As far as I can tell, Windstone doesn’t take it personally – it’s an entirely legal thing they are concerned with. I’ve read in some places (and correct me if I’m wrong) that Melody herself doesn’t take personal offense to repaints – again, it’s a legal issue.
In any case, I think I’ll not post repaints ever again on this forum. I feel really sad that people feel so angry about something that I can only see as beautiful.
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Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!I think a definitive answer is a good idea!
There is a gray area here. I repair Windstones and repaint some.
I try as hard as I can to be respectful to Windstone the their Trade Address,
I ALWAYS mark the bottom of the felt pad, as well as the gypsum under the pad…and in some cases I remove the pad all together and replace it with a generic pad and I write repaint on that so they wont be mistaken for ANYTHING Windstone has painted.It is very frustrating tring to come up with color combos that wont infringe on someone else’s work.. between all of Windstones paint schemes and all the talented people here.. it would be nice to have a difinitive answer where the line is drawn.
One thing that REALLY rubbed me the wrong way was, I posted a picture of a pyo keeper… and a few days later I got a PM from Jennifer telling me that this dragon’s coloring and where I placed his accents went against WS’s trade address. and I know Jennifer was only doing her Job and was given the task of sending that PM… In a nutshell I was devastated… and my feelings really got hurt! I was so upset, I wanted to sell my entire collection and be done with Windstone! I tried so hard to make something that was not WS like but thats not an easy thing… and with exception of the gold accents and where they are placed… I dont feel colors should be protected.
The only thing that got accomplished by sending me that pm was I just dont post my Pyo’s and I only share photos of my repaints with friends…. and thats not right! I think haveing a thread where repaints can be shared and documented is a great idea!
People are going to paint sculptures no matter what, it would be refreshing having a place where it was embraced!
I hope I have not offended anyone.. I dont think I have said anything that hasn’t already been said.
I think its really good to get all this out on the tableKalandra
Whelp.. I guess I just better stay out of this thread at this point, because not only do I disagree with some things being said, but I’m starting to feel like I am being made out as a criminal.
It’s a serious shame that this issue is so polarizing, and that people are taking it to personal levels. As far as I can tell, Windstone doesn’t take it personally – it’s an entirely legal thing they are concerned with. I’ve read in some places (and correct me if I’m wrong) that Melody herself doesn’t take personal offense to repaints – again, it’s a legal issue.
In any case, I think I’ll not post repaints ever again on this forum. I feel really sad that people feel so angry about something that I can only see as beautiful.
Nono. You are not a criminal. People just need to take it seriously, and it sounds like you do. I don’t take offense either way, but it’s not a simple issue, and people should take all issues into account.
I agree with others that it might not be a bad idea to have a thread so that people can post their repaints. It informs the public of the existence (and appearance) of any repaints.
I think comparing Windstones to Breyers is incorrect, but comparing Windstones PYOs to model horse resin editions is more comparable. Each artist decides whether they want their piece altered or not and you have to respect that otherwise there are consequences. Your fellow hobbyists coming down on you being a pretty stinky one.
Windstone is saying ‘you can’t repaint a factory-painted piece’. I have no problem with that. However, it is going to occur since it’s near impossible to go into everyone’s homes and say ‘you can’t do that’.
Because of that, I think Windstone and this forum and the collectors on here should be well informed so we can inform others. I think a forum topic on here would be a good way to accomplish that whether pictures or allowed or not. However it plays out, Windstone needs an official stance and it needs to become a sticky at the top of some of the forums including the repair section.
Collectors do need to be aware that repaints are possible because they are and are going to continue to be out there.
My humble 2 cents.
-- Angie
I think Jennifer is frustrated in the replies because she wasn’t telling anyone what they can, and can’t do. She was simply giving advice so that people, windstone and forums members, are not hurt down the line.
I remember the first large “incident” involving repaints. From what I gathered from being an “outsider looking in” on the situation, the person that was doing the repaints really got hurt in the end of it all. I’m sure Jennifer just doesn’t want this kind of thing to happen again.You have to understand Jennifer’s situation here. It seems she’s trying to appeal to both sides, and in this case… that’s not so easy to do. This would cause anyone to feel a bit flustered.
Jennifer, if I am incorrect feel free to correct me… but this is just what I feel/gather.
^ THIS
…Now where is that beating a dead horse gif?
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Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry DragonsReally…in a nutshell what it breaks down to is:
Do you want to respect the artist’s wishes considering their art?
If you do, fine…don’t repaint. Melody and John have asked us not to, it’s that simple. Do you respect their wishes?
If you dont..then comes the question ‘how are you gonna enforce it?’….meaning the person is considering doing it anyway.. but wants to know how bad the ‘spanking’ (in parents terms) is gonna be, should they get caught.
Then comes the ‘ok, fine…I’ll hide it’ gambit….or the “I’m just gonna do it anyway” (onery child reaction..in parental terms)
Really…broken down, in my opinion…I dont do repaints anymore because I didnt know better in the first place, then I was confused and somewhat hurt because I didnt understand what seemed to be a complicated issue to me at the time.
But, when I came back later and looked at it, after the dust had settled a bit, as well as my emotions…..it’s as easy as me keeping my word not to repaint any more, and respecting Windstone’s wishes.
It’s not my art….so I’m ok not having a say in how it’s treated.
Really…if it were to come up with my art and I had a request in how it was treated, I’d really appreciate those who supported me in that. Could I enforce otherwise? No, I couldnt. After they’ve bought it….it’s in their possesion and I certainly have no control there.
The legalities…..oy…..I dont think I’ll ever truly understand trade dress law in any sort of thorough manner. Trying to understand it, and all the intricacies of art based law makes my head want to explode…it probably always will. So I just found another way to think about it, in terms I understand.
What do I think Windstone should do? Gee….really I have no clue. In my opinion its a messy muddy situation..and though I’d love to learn more about how different companies take different stances on protecting work, my hopes are slim I’ll truly grasp it……since the best example I could come up with was Breyer.
It truly was their stance about modifying original released pieces I’m asking about, not so much the nitpicking of what’s art and what’s not. I’ve met a couple of their sculptors, and truly their artists are incredible, even if it does get produced and sold in a less expensive medium.
I just had a short conversation with Alan, our copyright attorney, and we will continue to discuss this next week but I believe I had misunderstood, or misremembered, a discussion we had a few years ago and I am probably not correct in what I first posted. LupusLunae has probably got it right (and thanks for jumping in Lupus!). My apologies to all, especially Pam, if this is the case, and it does seem like it is.
This is not an issue that we have ever had to litigate or one that I have done any real research into. The legal problems we have had concerning copyrights have always been ones of infringement and fair usage that include removal of copyright notice, trade dress, etc.
Does that mean we want to allow or disallow posting of re-painted pieces? We really don’t want to encourage re-painting. Re-pairing, restoring, that’s fine but re-painting of production pieces is, for us, a royal pain when these pieces are re-sold and confusion takes hold in the re-sale market. Breyer has used re-painting as a very well honed marketing tool to sell their horses and grow their customer base, but look at the original product. I don’t think I could ever view them as analogous to Windstone and our original product.
I am for removing re-paints from the forum and making it policy to not allow the posting of production re-paints, period. The PYO’s are designed and intended to be owner painted, sold, whatever and I don’t see any benefit to Melody or Windstone in the posting of images of re-paints of our production pieces.
I am for removing re-paints from the forum and making it policy to not allow the posting of production re-paints, period. The PYO’s are designed and intended to be owner painted, sold, whatever and I don’t see any benefit to Melody or Windstone in the posting of images of re-paints of our production pieces.
I’ll go take down my repaint pictures now.
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Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!I just had a short conversation with Alan, our copyright attorney, and we will continue to discuss this next week but I believe I had misunderstood, or misremembered, a discussion we had a few years ago and I am probably not correct in what I first posted. LupusLunae has probably got it right (and thanks for jumping in Lupus!). My apologies to all, especially Pam, if this is the case, and it does seem like it is.
This is not an issue that we have ever had to litigate or one that I have done any real research into. The legal problems we have had concerning copyrights have always been ones of infringement and fair usage that include removal of copyright notice, trade dress, etc.
Does that mean we want to allow or disallow posting of re-painted pieces? We really don’t want to encourage re-painting. Re-pairing, restoring, that’s fine but re-painting of production pieces is, for us, a royal pain when these pieces are re-sold and confusion takes hold in the re-sale market. Breyer has used re-painting as a very well honed marketing tool to sell their horses and grow their customer base, but look at the original product. I don’t think I could ever view them as analogous to Windstone and our original product.
I am for removing re-paints from the forum and making it policy to not allow the posting of production re-paints, period. The PYO’s are designed and intended to be owner painted, sold, whatever and I don’t see any benefit to Melody or Windstone in the posting of images of re-paints of our production pieces.
Thank you very much! I was pretty confused with all the information but this makes it super understandable! I’ll dismantle my repaint thread 😀
What do I think Windstone should do? Gee….really I have no clue. In my opinion its a messy muddy situation..and though I’d love to learn more about how different companies take different stances on protecting work, my hopes are slim I’ll truly grasp it……since the best example I could come up with was Breyer.
I didn’t explain well, sorry. I really think in the beginning Breyer was not okay with this (repainting and customizing), but eventually just ran with it. Makes them more money in the long run and keeps a segment of the customer base happy. If I remember the history discussions correctly. And, when you get right down to it, regular run Breyers are marketed as toys.
Windstones are not toys, obviously. (Oooh, some plastic Windstones please. Just kidding. Just kidding.) They are more in line with the artist resins, since those are both released unpainted and are of a higher quality material and detail. It is usually taboo to change the paint job once painted though. This is getting off tangent so I’m going to stop.
Should repairs be allowed when the intention is not to restore? I dunno. I’m getting close to tossing my one that I am repairing since I know I can’t duplicate the factory paint job. Actually, John’s last post answered the question.
-- Angie
Does anyone remember the furor over a red dragon family that came up on an eBay auction from an estate sale many years ago? It was before the release of any of the official reds/rubies as I recall, and before this forum too. I remember there was a real tizzy of people anxious that they were a released sets of test paints, like the wedding cakes and black/tans (ooh wow REDS WANT!!!! can they be real? sorta). The seller didn’t have a clue their history. Turns out yes they were repaints.
I think this shows part of the problem. Fortunately Windstone went ahead and made reds!I know I said I wouldn’t post again but I had to say:
Kalandra, I am very sorry; I never intended for you to stop posting and I feel very sad that my PM to you had such a result. I do hope you will consider sharing your PYOs again.
All: I am sorry if my candid thread caused more problems and bad feelings than it helped. Simply: there was a problem in the past and I knew that said person wasn’t trying to hurt anyone. I knew that it could become a problem again and I knew that no one was trying to hurt windstone. I just wanted to urge caution. I didn’t want to see anyone hurt again. I never indicated what I personally thought someone should and should not do in this situation.
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My art: featherdust.comJen, I think this needed to be brought up, in fact, I do think that you bringing this up has helped prevent a nasty incident that could have happened. It brought forth very interesting information and also a clearer standing of things. If you had not brought this up, more people would have posted more repaints, and it certainly had the high possibility of having to be addressed and being another messy fiasco. Non of us want that.
I think this has been very enlightening.
I am for removing re-paints from the forum and making it policy to not allow the posting of production re-paints, period. The PYO’s are designed and intended to be owner painted, sold, whatever and I don’t see any benefit to Melody or Windstone in the posting of images of re-paints of our production pieces.
I’ll go take down my repaint pictures now.
Any photos I have will remain in my password protected photobucket to share with friends only…
After reading this whole thread and wanting to stay out of it… I’m a little appalled that we who have done repaints, as respectful collectors, try our best to mark all these sculptures as REPAINTS to avoid ANY confusion down the road for Windstone are being made to feel like this. I can see Windstone would rather not let us repaint anything at all EVER obviously… but I agree with the “I paid for it, and I’ll do with it what I want” philosophy. I don’t ever make a habit of repainting a new or undamaged production sculpt. Even repairs, if I can repair it good enough to look like the factory coloring, I’d rather not repaint it… but for those pieces I can NEVER fix quite right because I don’t use an airbrush or can’t match the factory paint… you bet your behind I’m not going to just throw it away. For someone who has probably spent over $100,000.00 EASILY on Windstones over my lifetime… I would think that there would be at least SOME part of Windstone that can at least appreciate the lengths we collectors go to to at least TRY and protect Windstone from confusion down the road. I could be doing repaints as commissions, but I dont… I could sell them on ebay, but I dont… I could just repaint for myself to own for my own personal collection and NOT mark them if I wanted to be a jerk and just not care what happens 10 or 20 years from now at some estate sale when I’m dead… but I don’t! I DO care! Now, not only do I feel worse for fixing and repainting a broken Windstone, but no appreciation at all for massacring the bottom if it so it’s never confused for a real production or official paint scheme in the off chance it falls into the wrong hands. I don’t know why I even try so hard… I really do not understand what the big freaking deal is…end of rant…
Got a busted Windstone?
drag0nfeathersdesign@gmail.com
*OPEN for repairs**SEEKING GRAILS*
Arc-en-ciel Emperor
Siphlophis Male Dragon
Calypso Hatching Empress
Ivory Moss Sitting Baby Kirin
Tattoo Mother Kirin
Emerald Tabby Male Griffin
Tie Dye + Orion Hatching Royalty
Indigo Rockfish + Flame Tabby Little Rock Dragons
Dragon Quail + Obsidian Frost Old Warriors
Betta Sun Dragon + Male Dragon
Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry DragonsI removed most of the pics from my thread but I need a mod I think to edit out the ones in the first post…I tried to kill all the pics but I can’t get the first post!
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1. Mother Meerkat
2. production color Sitting Young Oriental dragons to be made in more colors besides VF, Brimstone would be awesome!
3. Female Griffin – Siamese with White
4. September Raffle Prize 2022 AHD Male Griffin
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