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Hi guys!
This post is going to be 100% candid; I am going a bit out on a limb saying these things because it’s a touchy subject (and trust me, I often get an ear full from both sides). You want to know frustration? Frustration is getting guff from both sides, and being able to understand and sympathize with both sides. Breaks my heart, sometimes!
The problem with repainted production casts is, in a nutshell, a legal one and not so much anyone at Windstone saying “Hey you jerks those are for us to paint, not you.” Pretty much, and I am simplifying, Windstone owns not only copyrights on Melody’s sculpture works, but also something called a Trade Dress, which protects the overall look of the piece– including the color scheme (with the disclaimer that things such as tiger stripes or simply ‘the color [blue/red/whatever]’ doesn’t belong to anyone). This covers the way that colors are applied to pieces, in addition to the gold detailing, and so on and so on. The complication is that Windstones are actual art pieces; it’s hard to remember sometimes because they are cast and reproduced, but they are just reproductions of a master, original sculpture made by an individual artist. When we get into repaints, there is the potential to create confusion as to if it is an official paint job or not, as well as multiple artists to the same piece, etc. Of course, us hardcore collectors don’t get confused, really… most of us can tell if it’s a repaint, if nothing else by looking at the bottom. But even though us hardcore folks can tell, there are a lot of folks that cannot. It’s caused problems before. Not often, but it has.
A few folks have, in the past, done repaints of pieces that were otherwise so damaged that it was probably just trash. I respect and love that new life was given to the piece( s ).
They asked me if they could share here.
I thought about the situation for a while. I figured– if someone is going to repaint something, they are probably gonna do it no matter if I say they can post it or not! So, why not let them post it with the condition that it is clearly marked as a REPAINT, especially on the photos…. if anything, I thought, it would create LESS confusion and make folks feel less like they had to go ‘underground’ with these things. At least, if the general public here on the forum knew about a repaint, it would be less likely to accidentally be considered an official paint job from Windstone. This seemed like pretty solid reasoning to me. Maybe I was wrong! I don’t know.
And so some repaints have been posted! And it’s sort of okay, and sort of not.
However, some of you guys are really skilled with an airbrush, and you can get what (to me) looks to be close to production quality paint jobs on these things. And that’s where I start to panic. Because once repaints start looking really official, legal problems start spiraling in and then we all get hollared at and repaints aren’t allowed any more. And probably a lot of people will have hurt feelings. That is my nightmare!
I understand: there are only so many ways to apply paint to these things. Trust me, I struggle with that too when I am painting pieces and I want them to look different from the things Melody, Olimpia, Helen, (and now P.S.) do. And I know how exciting it is to paint the non PYO pieces (I know some of you are thinking, ‘but Jen, you get to paint them so you’re not one to talk!’ and boy I understand your frustration but you are barking up the wrong tree…). But repaints that look like they could be production pieces have happened before, and it was not fun for anyone involved, and I just hate to see that happen again.
I am not trying to make anyone feel guilty, yell at anyone, or make anyone mad. I KNOW you guys are not out to hurt Windstone or cause problems. I understand your perspective really well…. until a few years ago I was just an excited collector and fan, myself. That’s why I’m posting this instead of just letting history repeat itself– because I know you guys mean no harm and I want everyone to have fun and enjoy Windstones and collecting and our community!
I’m just asking you to read and consider what I’m saying.
Thanks, guys!
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comOne last note:
The PYO line was developed just for this reason (folks wanted to paint Windstones!). They were created for creative collectors to have a nice Windstone to paint without temporizing Windstone’s legal hold on their production line. They were created even though they are not overly fruitful for Windstone, and despite many many copyright worries their very existence has brought Windstone.
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comThank you, Jennifer. Sometimes we can get so excited with all the happiness and fun that Melody’s sculptures bring into our lives that we forget these big ugly legal things.
No feelings hurt here, but I took down the repaint pictures I had posted. I wanted to show him off, which I got to do, and now that its been seen, its taken down. I know one person wont solve the problem, but I hope its helped 🙂
I totally understand.
I always (and I know you know this Jennifer XD) send you a message when I am thinking about posting a repaint. I try to make mine more intricate and detailed, in some way, so that it looks more obviously like a repaint – not just to avoid confusion, but so that it looks like MY work and not someone elses! In fact, the last time I sent you a message about a repaint I was on the fence as to whether you would allow it or not. The Emp that I did is definitely in the same realm as Red Fire. I know that! It wasn’t what I had planned when I started it, and in person it looks much different but in pictures I thought it could get confused easily.
I just wanted to let you know that if there’s ever a question about it, or Windstone feels uncomfortable with a repaint that I’ve put up and you’ve already approved, I wont have hurt feelings if you ask me to take it down later. I understand, and I don’t want to cause issues!
I feel a little bad because I feel like I helped to open this can of worms – ever since I started posting my repaints I’ve seen more and more threads of people and their repaints, and every time I see one I’m afraid that Windstone is going to crack down and stop it all.
Do you think it’s possible to have a designated section – whether it be a gallery or another website, or something – for repaints only? This is also sticky because it could look like Windstone is going out of their way to make a section for repaints, giving the impression that it’s allowed – but if it’s prefaced with a giant warning sign, maybe it would be better?
I don’t know. I know you’ve thought about this a lot more than I have but I can’t help but feel like there’s some way to make everyone happy!
In the end, like I said before, I won’t be hurt if I am asked to take anything down. In the future I will be doing more to try to make repaints look unquestionably like my own work, or at least unique enough to question (is that an official Windstone? No.. it cant be!), and as always I will OK anything with you before I post them. Maybe this is the best habit to get into – sending Jennifer a PM to ask a question is never a bad thing 🙂 God knows shes heard from me enough! XD
And just for the record – I straight refuse to repaint pieces that are not damaged and broken! Part of my repainting process is repairing – if the piece looks like it could manage as a repair and not a repaint, I try that first! I don’t have the stomach to repaint a perfectly good piece 🙂 This doesn’t have much to do with anything other than that I HAVE been asked to do repaints, and I will say it up front – I won’t repaint something that doesnt need it <3
Commission spots are currently closed! Please message me for details.
Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!Repaints are a good way to recycle damaged pieces to me. I have a couple that I got repaired and repainted.
Repaints are a good way to recycle damaged pieces to me. I have a couple that I got repaired and repainted.
Well, if the photos and pads clearly state repaint, I personally don’t see a problem. Even if someone has NEVER seen a windstone before, they would have to be blind, or not understand what the word “repaint” means, in order to not understand that it is REPAINTED. I mean, you can’t be any clearer than that! And as long as the repaint does not infringe on an existing color scheme, it’s not breaking legal rules, is it? An airbrushed piece will look windstonish no matter what colors you use because it is done with an AIRBRUSH. We can’t copyright the use of airbrushes on windstones, that’s just silly.
Also, I support the creation of a repaint THREAD. Not a section, but maybe just a single thread where anyone who had done a repaint can post pics. That way all the repaints can be kept together, and easily documented. In my opinion, keeping repaints underground would be worse for Windstone, because then we don’t know about them either! That just creates more potential for confusion in the future.
Maybe this is not what Jennifer’s post was referring to, but as a consumer, if I BUY something, I OWN it, and if I want to repaint it, or throw it off a cliff, or glue hair all over it, I will. The company that made the thing may own the rights to what it looks like or how it works, but they don’t own the object itself once I purchase it. If a company doesn’t want its products altered, they should rent the products out, not sell them. That is my own personal, “not-affiliated-with-windstone-in-any-way” opinion 🙂
EDIT: For the record, this post was not intended to encourage repainting! I understand that repaints have the potential to harm the Windstone company, and that repaints might actually be illegal. This post was intended to express my own personal feelings only (not that of Windstone). PLEASE don’t take my post to mean that I encourage forum members to repaint or break the law. I apologize if it came across that way. Windstone Editions does not encourage or support repaints, or any other illegal or potentially illegal activity.
….. if I BUY something, I OWN it, and if I want to repaint it, or throw it off a cliff, or glue hair all over it, I will. The company that made the thing may own the rights to what it looks like or how it works, but they don’t own the object itself once I purchase it. If a company doesn’t want its products altered, they should rent the products out, not sell them….
This is what I feel to in a nutshell.
A thread where they can all go would be great .
I would never have one painted and signed by Melody repainted .
Feel bad enough having any Windstone repainted .
People can show off their talents .Before coming here…..my previous art collectible experience was with Breyer horses. Which explains part of why I went repaint crazy….Breyer ENCOURAGES repaints, they even have competitions and entire shows for it. Breyers that arrive at dealers with paint flaws are expressly sold for repaint/custom purposes….I can only assume it helps business for breyer.
I had no idea the stance was so different on this issue for Windstone when i first arrived at these forums….which probably contributed to my own ‘can of worms’ when it came up.
I have a question based on this.
Is Breyer’s copyright to the sculptures done by the various horse artists weakened by them allowing repaints and customization?
Are they somehow more vulnerable to counterfeit breyers popping up due to their stance?
With the Breyers, they don’t have trade dress, right? Most of their horses are painted in natural ‘horsey’ colors that can’t be copyrighted in any way, I’m sure. And Breyers as a whole (leaving aside their porcelain lines) are much cheaper than Windstones. What benefit to putting in a lot of work to duplicate a plastic horse that sells for $30 or so?
I would think their trouble would be with painters trying to repaint a Breyer into resembling an old and very rare color run from decades ago. That would be bad for collectors, but perhaps not Breyer itself.
I’m very grateful Windstone made PYOs, just wish there were more of them!
….. if I BUY something, I OWN it, and if I want to repaint it, or throw it off a cliff, or glue hair all over it, I will. The company that made the thing may own the rights to what it looks like or how it works, but they don’t own the object itself once I purchase it. If a company doesn’t want its products altered, they should rent the products out, not sell them….
This is what I feel to in a nutshell.
Sorry, but I’ll ditto that. I’ve never posted my repaints here and I probably never will, but I do not see how Windstone could legally force any of us to stop doing what we want with our own property unless we are deliberately misrepresenting it in a re-sale. If you think about it, people who repair pieces and then paint them are also technically ‘repainting’…and THEIR goal IS to make it look exactly like the production paint job! And yet there is no whinging about that? Psh.
Also, if a seller sells something without mentioning it’s a repaint, or the buyer doesn’t ask/examine the auction/what-have-you closely enough, that’s on them…not the person who did the repaint.
And Breyers as a whole (leaving aside their porcelain lines) are much cheaper than Windstones. What benefit to putting in a lot of work to duplicate a plastic horse that sells for $30 or so?
Tsk tsk…now dont go making me feel bad for spending $150 on that limited run plastic horse I bought at Breyerfest a few years back…..granted, many breyers sell for a great deal less than that…but I asked the question based on circumstances I knew.
Breyer has done many different types of colors over the years, not all of them ‘horsey colors’…so I’m not really sure how one color would be protected over another, I simply dont know enough about the legalities there.
Gypsum or plastic..they’re both collectables. I spackle with gypsum…my kids have toys that are made from plastic….however Windstones are definately not spackle grade gypsum, and Breyers are definately a step up from ordinary plastic toys.
My question wasnt really based on how much a piece is sold for…but more how those pieces are legally protected.
Breyer not only encourages repaints, but sawing, repositioning, glueing hair, all sorts of things!
What about artist’s resins? (model horses) They’re sold blank to paint I guess but people still customize them right? Like cut off their manes and tails and replace them with mohair, that type of thing.
Reading Jennifer’s post actually makes me think more about the vintage my little pony. A lot of people recently have got into restoring them, and that includes rehairing, retouching eyes and symbols, and the like. But personally I don’t think a mint pony includes one that has been retouched or rehaired, but in many cases it’s nearly impossible to tell the difference. I’ve certainly heard of people buying a rare pony in “mint” condition only to find it’s been rehaired or something. A lot of people write “RH” on the pony’s foot but most don’t. So, from the perspective of someone buying windstones later, I can see how there might be confusion between repaints and ebay pieces or whatever. But I guess the same confusion exists from well repaired windstones.
I don’t paint windstones so it doesn’t bother me either way. Maybe a dedicated thread with a warning or disclaimer at the beginning would help. That way they would all be in one place, since they’re not allowed in the PYO section.
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