How is the second hand market doing?

Honestly, as much as I love grab bags I think they shot us in the foot a little bit.

I’ve noticed even Windstone’s ebay auctions for special test paints take a sharp nose dive in sales yet, grab bags get thrown up and go for 4 to 5 times the retail mark up. Seems like everyone is a bit more short in the pocketbook because they are focusing on grab bags so much.

Maybe it’s just me? I have been watching the auctions for a while and some aren’t even hitting a regular retail for a production piece. (of course not any of the ones I WANT) but I can’t be the only one who has noticed the steals on ebay these days. It’s a bit of a hard sell when you have an Old Warrior that is probably worth 1200 when you can snatch up another one on ebay for $300-$400 or less nowadays that is still a test paint.

You must have been reading my mind, because for about 2 years (maybe longer) it has seemed that most Windstones on eBay have gone for relatively low prices, whereas several years ago they seemed to be in higher demand. It hasn’t seemed to matter whether these are special pieces or regular production pieces. Just looked at the most recent sold items on eBay, which include a New Growth female griffin (special paint) for $184.00, Celestial Sunset Emperor dragon for $539.00, and a Violet Flame Lap Dragon for $125.00. A gold fledgling went for $96.00 on July 26. I bought mine in 2013 for close to $300.00. Also, for example, store price on lap dragons is $210.00, and eBay/Paypal/shipping typically takes up 25% in fees, so the person who sold the lap dragon (which had been relisted many times) probably walked with about $94.00 for a loss of $116.00. There are exceptions, and I’ve had a lot of my collection for sale for some time now, but I can’t take that much of a loss. I always purchased these because I really liked them, but I also knew that I might one day resell them, and part of why I was so willing to purchase a lot of them was that at the time it seemed that they would retain their value.

I’ve wondered what has factored into this. It seems WE is producing more product and colors (including grab bags and different sculpts) and that perhaps it wasn’t able to do that for some time after it moved to Oregon. This has increased the supply pretty dramatically. It also seems that there is a limited number of people who will spend this type of money on these statues and this is a very small community. When I started collecting, I wanted a lot of different colors, and I went overboard in trying to collect a lot of them – really too many of them. I don’t think I’m alone here because I’ve seen a lot of ads here or on eBay from people selling their collections for many different reasons. Over time, I’ve become much pickier now on what I will buy, and I am trying to sell a lot of my collection.

In any event, I’m going to wait and see. I’d rather hold on to them for awhile to see if I can ultimately recoup some of what I had spent then to try and sell now for 1/3 or even 1/4 of what I had paid.

Just my two cents – and I could be completely wrong. 🙂 Wouldn’t be the first time. But I would love to hear what others think.

drag0nfeathers wrote:

Honestly, as much as I love grab bags I think they shot us in the foot a little bit.

I’ve noticed even Windstone’s ebay auctions for special test paints take a sharp nose dive in sales yet, grab bags get thrown up and go for 4 to 5 times the retail mark up. Seems like everyone is a bit more short in the pocketbook because they are focusing on grab bags so much.

Maybe it’s just me? I have been watching the auctions for a while and some aren’t even hitting a regular retail for a production piece. (of course not any of the ones I WANT) but I can’t be the only one who has noticed the steals on ebay these days. It’s a bit of a hard sell when you have an Old Warrior that is probably worth 1200 when you can snatch up another one on ebay for $300-$400 or less nowadays that is still a test paint.

To be perfectly honest I think grab bags are a shot in the foot regardless of how they might impact Ebay sales. In spite of the amazing work Melody puts into them there are always some in higher demand (for example, silhouettes) and those that are not nearly as sought after (fish-scaled/armor-esque ones and lichens seem to fall into this more often than not). In the case of the former, reselling the piece even if you love it would be a good way to come out ahead on the equation; when it comes to the latter, people end up stuck with a piece they’ve spent hard cash on and either have to take a hit to resell/trade it or just settle for knowing they got the short end of the stick.

As for Ebay, I think that fluctuation is a combination of things: demand for a specific rare/retired piece, competition for particular colors/patterns on test paints/grab bags, economic flux, international currency exchange + shipping rates, and expectation of new releases (grab bag or otherwise).

Test paints, from my perspective, are something of a sticky situation. I absolutely love seeing the work that Gina and Laurie do with the test paints…they do amazing things with colors and scale patterning! However, when I look at Pinterest, old collections/auctions, or (when the old site was running) the production gallery, there were a lot of pieces I missed out on that I find as equally appealing if not more so than the test paints of nowadays…and most of that comes down to 1) the painters’ styles, 2) what they have time to do during the work week, and 3) whether or not it’s considered as being “done” before and thus not to be repeated. I think that some of those older test paints *would* have a higher value if only because we don’t often see leopard griffin test paints, tiger old warriors, or blue-striped white tiger coiled mother dragons (cough, calendar piece, cough). And, as Natasha said, there’s also the inescapable issue of people simply having difference financial situations–namely someone bidding really high and then choosing to resell is going to have a hard time recouping those dollars.

When all is said and done, it’s really just supply and demand. Windstone doesn’t seem to release new production colors regularly so when they do it’s usually with an adequate supply. Due to that I feel that most people end up deciding between saving up for grab bags *or* test paints, and with new test paints popping up on a daily basis, people have little choice but to be choosy. I really loved the new growth male griffin but after buying a gb baby uni and paying off another 5% of the accrued medical bills, my choice had to be to pass on him. Se la vie.

The Ebay market pretty much went through the roof when Windstone first went online and established the forums! That went especially for retired pieces. When test paints and auctions straight from Windstone started, prices were very high, and I like to think those sales helped Windstone fund the big jump to Oregon! But an Old Green dragon commanding several times its purchase price today? Probably not happening, at least not right now.

I think this is due to a number of factors, one being that with the expansion in the range of production colors, pieces, and OOAK Ebay pieces, people have more room to be choosy about their must-have pieces whether they are fresh from the factory or long-retired. Second, a lot of longtime collectors already have their shelves full when it comes to production pieces, and won’t continually purchase older sculpts and colors to keep boosting their secondhand prices. Third, with Windstones being both collectibles and art pieces, a lot of collectors purchase not just for personal enjoyment but with the hope that their pieces will accrue value over time. Like any investment that doesn’t always happen, but if offered the choice between a OOAK piece and a production piece, I think people will choose the OOAK/signed/LP partially for their rarity. The big exceptions to this might be Red Fire and darker-colored Ruby pieces, maybe…

Many of the factors that lead to a “slow market” have echoes in the collecting and art markets as a whole.
Sales in an election year in the USA are almost always poor for most artists/sellers of artwork, as there is just so much instability and uncertainty.
Demographics have a big play, too. Unfortunately, the generation with the most disposable income is also an aging generation, and fewer young people have the financial ability to collect much, or often, or at higher dollar amounts. There are always exceptions.
That said, it’s never wise to “invest” in art or a collectible for its resale value. Buy because you like it, because the market is fickle!

There is another consideration when discussing test paint sales. When I first joined (Dec 2012), test paints seemed to be mostly done by Melody herself. There were a few other artists who did exceptional work (some before my time), but the higher prices on Ebay were usually generated by Melody. Now she spends her time doing Grab Bags (which we all buy at record speeds) and sculptures, which don’t often get painted and sold. Gina and Laurie do GREAT work, and if I had the money I’d buy their work at the prices they deserve (DEFINATELY more than production pieces at least) and would be proud to display them, but they are not Melody. However, like a lot of people, I can no longer afford to pay upwards of $600 for a piece, no matter how much I love it. I’m lucky if I can buy the Grab bags and I’ve missed quite a few lately, something I never did my first few years on the forum.

I remember when a few of us talked about this a while back maybe a a year or two ago. There was definitely a bit of a concern with test paints on ebay going for lower prices and that the grabs bags seemed to resell for more at the expense of ebay pieces. I agree with what others said above. I think when grab bags come out, it unfortunately uses up most of the money people might otherwise save for ebay or test paints or buying secondary pieces from other people. Also with supply and demand, the more test paints and grab bags come out, the more prices seem to go down, especially for pieces that don’t have the most highly desired colours or patterns. Even with grab bags it can be hard sometimes to recover what was paid unless you have a really popular one.

I have been lucky to have been able to resell some pieces for pretty much what I paid or more, except in the last year it seems. I have a few pieces I have had listed here for months or a year and put up on ebay at different times that are not selling and it’s frustrating. I still have a safari young unicorn that a lot of people said they liked or were interested in trading for but could not afford to buy. When new pieces come out, instead of sellers being able to sell older pieces like past test paints or grab bags, it seems everyone buying wants the new grab bags and ignores the older pieces unless again they were really sought after ones.

I know at one point I had mentioned it might be nice if grab bag batches slowed down or didn’t come out every month, to give people time to recuperate their finances and maybe look at buying other pieces like ebay or production pieces. I didn’t even buy any production pieces I wanted for like a year because I was having trouble keeping up with saving money for all the grab bags. If they came out maybe 4 times a year instead of every month then that would give everyone the chance to maybe buy older pieces on the secondary market.

I personally love grab bags but I think there has been a bit of an over saturation in the market and not enough collectors to buy secondary market pieces. There are more new pieces coming out then new collectors buying it seems, which brings downs the values on newer and older pieces. I think after the new baby unis I will probably be tapped out of grab bags for a while unless I sell other pieces. For me, to have a young uni sitting in a box I paid about $450 for after shipping and customs that is not selling is not the kind of risk I had in mind when I purchased it. Speaking of which if anyone wants to buy it or my other pieces too, let me know. I am hoping things will pick up in the fall before Christmas and that more people will take a look at the classifieds here and buy more pieces that need new homes!