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Rae didn’t do this to Jen because of Jen. She did it because Rae is a deceitful person who gets a charge out of hurting others. Once she figured out where Jen’s weakness lay (meaning Jerry), she decided to hurt Jen by dating Jerry. And he may have broken things off before they got to a hotel, but Rae knew she could hurt Jen just as effectively by making up a story. Her goal was to hurt Jen, there’s no question about it: her little game of always bringing things back to Jerry is all the proof Jen needs.
Rae is a bad person. She’s poison and she’s empty inside. There’s nothing in there to reason with. Jen should have nothing more to do with her, not even to confront her (Lord, don’t do that; it’s all the little wretch wants her to do!). She can write a letter to get all of this off her chest, but she mustn’t send it. Jen’s been badly burned by this experience, but she needs to set it down and walk away. If she continues to analyze it and wonder what she did wrong, it will continue to eat at her and Rae will have succeeded in hurting her for even longer. If Jen needs lots of talking-out, then I hope she can get it; she might even find counseling to be helpful.
My sister had a few “friends” like Rae, and I know what those little monsters did to her. šæ The only solution is to cut them out of one’s life completely.
Forget it.
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http://www.sarahjestin.com/feedbacklists.htmI can definately see where GB is coming from even though I may not share the exact same opinion. And please don’t take this as a jab but it’s something that sprang to mind.
I would consider it wrong to chase a guy that a friend was also persuing, for certain. But morality is subjective.
The story however, makes me question how much of an effort Jenn made to ask this guy out. I’m not one to make the first move either. I met my boyfriend online so that speaks alot about my confidence when meeting men. But if they’ve known eachother for at least several summers, personally, it would be doing my head in not doing something about trying to make a relationship out of it. Even a simple “I really like you” to get the ball rolling.
All I’m saying is if it wasn’t Rae, would it be ok? Yes, it’s really horrible that she told Jenn and lied to her, there’s no denying she was at fault there. Seems like she was asserting some kind of dominance. But surely Jerry isn’t going to hang around forever since he obviously seemed unsure if Jenn wanted a relationship with him. The other way to look at it is if someone isn’t in a relationship, they’re open.
If I was Jenn, I’d cut Rae out from my life without any more words exchanged and if Jenn still thinks that she can and wants to have a future with Jerry, just get the wheels in motion. If I was being ambiguous with my feelings towards a guy, I wouldn’t get mad at him for sleeping with other people during the months/years we never got together, even if it was with a friend. I’d be mad at the friend for bragging and most likely cut them out of my life, but not so much at the situation.
If Jenn and Jerry were already under some sort of understanding that they were not to see other people, I’m sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick. (Being sincere, not snarky).
I don’t know why Rae did that (who knows, right?) I wouldn’t want to be judged because I started getting feelings for my fiancee while dating someone else, without any back story (and no I won’t discuss it here), so I don’t think it’s fair to pass judgment on Rae or Jenn.
However, having said that, personally, I would have NEVER done that. If a friend or family member told me they loved someone, I wouldn’t even think of going on a date with them (they automatically go into the brother category, as was said earlier). So while I think that what they did was wrong, we are only hearing one side of the argument. We don’t know *why* they did it, if they even did do anything, so there’s no way to pass judgement on someone.
OMG the drama!
Humans + sexual activity = unpredictable behavior. Period. It’s the natural instinct of your brain pushing aside logic and rational thought in favor of propagating your species.
Snapdragon wrote:OMG the drama!
Humans + sexual activity = unpredictable behavior. Period. It’s the natural instinct of your brain pushing aside logic and rational thought in favor of propagating your species.
for real… although there were way too many words for me to be even the slightest bit bothered to read any of it..
Snapdragon wrote:OMG the drama!
Humans + sexual activity = unpredictable behavior. Period. It’s the natural instinct of your brain pushing aside logic and rational thought in favor of propagating your species.
*laughs* Amen.
frozendragon wrote:Snapdragon wrote:OMG the drama!
Humans + sexual activity = unpredictable behavior. Period. It’s the natural instinct of your brain pushing aside logic and rational thought in favor of propagating your species.
for real… although there were way too many words for me to be even the slightest bit bothered to read any of it..
hehe me too , way too long to read it but i skimmed and got the jist of it. I have played the role of Jerry once. i was dating a girl got bored her shy routine after 5 months (i deserve a reward for being nice that long) and went for the sister … dont hate the playa hate da game .
In short coming from a guy . We dont like the im gonna flirt with you but still be standoffish routine , its annoying and a waste of our time . We want some one who is more assertive not a dominatrix but some thing in the middle . We dont like the girl who sits in the corner pining over with the shy routine for more than a date or two. Shy at first is fine but the cold fish only lasts a short time , and yes if you act that way long enough we will check out your friends and find some one who isnt constantly scared of taking the next step . I may sound rude but thats how we guys are , we are less emotional than women and dont like the emotional games ; its beyond our rational thought we dont understand it and really dont want to . If any guy tells you other wise its just because he wants some .
Necron99 wrote:In short coming from a guy . We dont like the im gonna flirt with you but still be standoffish routine , its annoying and a waste of our time . We want some one who is more assertive not a dominatrix but some thing in the middle . We dont like the girl who sits in the corner pining over with the shy routine for more than a date or two. Shy at first is fine but the cold fish only lasts a short time , and yes if you act that way long enough we will check out your friends and find some one who isnt constantly scared of taking the next step
Wow, that… wow, you summed it up so damn good.
Shy is cute, and mopey is cute.. for a while. But if you hang around a girl that is constantly shy or reserved or introverted, it’s such a turn off. You want a girlfriend that will come up and slap you in the back of the head and say WE’RE GOING OUT – NOW! … but at the same time if you say seriously, not tonight, it’s important work… won’t go pout in the damn corner.
My ex was like that. Assertion is such a HUGE turn on. Just don’t cross the line into … ahem. Female dog mode. There is a difference, and it’s called respect.
[Sidebar]- Dang that movie is so good! I never tire of watching it. Some great writing. We just finished watching ‘V For Vendetta.’ Even though I hate masks, this movie was so easy for me to get behind even the first time I saw it. I recommend it. [Done]
Thanks to all of you who put forth some serious thought into the situation. I think whats most important is that Jenn can see that she isnt the only person that this has happened too. When youre just hearing stories like this, it’s easy to sit back and say it happens to so many others. But when it’s happening to you, you can feel very alone. When Jenn sees that so many others that she doesnt even know can understand what she has had to endure, it helps the healing. And in any way that she sees fit to proceed, it’s all about Adaneth said… closure. I think Jenn is doing well with it being that she doesnt plan on having anything to do with Rae again.
As for Jerry, he was always honest (not boasting) with Jenn about past relationships (Ive heard some and some were actually very interesting in a good way). She said their conversations never started off with those intentions but once they got to talking, opening up just came naturally.
WSC, she still has feelings for him but, the good thing is she realizes since they live in different states now, that it isnt really feasible. She has a guy (Brian) in her life and he’s great. But still, crushes die hard. She and Jerry have remained friends. I even talk to Jerry and he says he’d like to pursue Jenn. I dont know what to say to that and will let it follow its course. He misses her a lot.
I did find out something interesting though. Jerry was always interested in Jenn and he did speak to her godmother (remember, he worked for Jenn’s godparents during the summers) about her. Shes like everyones mom and VERY easy to talk to. She knew Jenn was attracted to Jerry and he said he was interested in her. It was the godmother that said he should go for it with her, just go slowly. Each he asked Jenn out to a movie, drinks, dinner, etc., Jenn always said ‘yes’, so it wasnt like she was stand offish. When I said that I was saying her natural shyness came across like that… until she gets to know you. Once she knows you, shes very loving and relatively confident. All he had to do was take it to the next level and Jenn would likely have said yes.
Jenn didnt use her shyness as a game… it’s her natural personality. She doesnt do it to be ‘cute.’ It’s a trait of hers that she dislikes and has battled. Jerry had said that he found Jenn pleasantly different and had no problem taking it slow and waiting for her to feel more comfortable. Perhaps it was HE who was nervous about taking the next step cause Jenn was just waiting. She’d said yes to everything prior. Just cause she isnt bold enough to ask a guy out at this point doesnt mean she should be discarded. She has her own scars too. And remember fellas, WE dont like it when YOU guys hedge around either. If you want to ask us out- DO IT! We dislike waiting just as much as you do! š
I agree with WSC about having close guy friends… they arent catty and I personally havent had to deal with the dang drama that females in my past have brought me.
Emerald– that stinks! Im sorry you had to deal with someone like that in your life. Ive never had someone (directly) like that in my life but Ive seen others do that to friends of mine. Like you, when they confronted the situation, the other girls were always like, ‘I dont know what youre talking about! I dont do that! It’s in your head!’ Thing was, most of them really couldnt see how at fault they were, like you were saying. Seems you got a great handle on it by moving on and even when coming back together, you learned from your situation and keep her at arms length. Thanks for sharing. Your story made an impact on Jenn cause she sat here and was like, ‘Wow! I know just what shes saying. I hate girls like that.’- meaning the girl you spoke of.
Eaglefeather– Empathy is really whats therapeutic at this time, I guess. It goes a long way for Jenn to hear that someone is just like her and that the pain she feels doesnt make her wrong or crazy. It was the first time this happened to her.
Yeah, like all of us shes been used in the past but this was something SO specific. The timing was just weird. Jerry had even gone out with other girls in the years that he knew Jenn but she never thought twice about it. What stuck in her craw was that immediately after she tells her current best friend about her feelings for a guy, her friend goes and makes a play for him and then flaunts it in her face, true or not. Whether Jerry did or didnt do anything with Rae isnt the point for her anymore (we believe Jerry’s account of what really happened that night). She just doesnt get why Rae would spend so much time on their friendship and do all she had for Jenn and then just stab her out of the blue.
Khat– nail… head… thanks for being the hammer! š Yes this is a public forum so if someone has every right to come into a discussion I start with good intentions and be disrespectful, then Ive every right to respond to it. Funny how I always get spanked for that. I always say, it’s not what you say but how you say it. My sharing of the story didnt need to be insulted; if you didnt care or thought it bollux, then theres no need to respond. Even on a public forum, you dont have to respond to every topic- especially if theres nothing helpful to say and, like you said, can lean towards being mean spirited. Ah, how democracy wanes. Oh and PS- I love the Akita emoticon in your signature!
Barrdwing– I agree with you there! I think Rae is a very crafty person and once she finds your Achilles heal, she goes for it. For someone as old as Rae is, she certainly acts like shes back in HS. I remember Jenn and Rae met a friend (girl) at the same time but that girl had more in common with Jenn. So, Jenn and she started to hang out and do things and this ticked Rae off in certain ways. Like she became jealous of Jenn’s new friend. Boils down to some kind of insecurity IMO. It’s pretty much been decided on that Rae lied about the sleeping with Jerry just to get to Jenn. But again, what irks her is why Rae would do something like that to her for no reason. Hell, even if you had a reason, why not settle things like adults for pete sake?!
Misato– Like I said above, it’s not what you say but how you say it, and you got your point across with respect. If youve read what I had to say to others in this post, I think some of your questions are answered. I know you werent being ‘snarky’… I like that word š Use to use it and have to remember to in the future!
Dragon87– who knows, right! š It’s pretty much believed that Rae spun a yarn just to get under Jenn’s skin but mystery doesnt sit well, yanno? We may never know why ppl do what they do, but sometimes you just have that nagging urge to want to find out. After it happens to you more than once, you begin to say- whatever- and move on. Jenn will become less trusting, more scars will settle in and she will become a bit more bullet proof as the years go on.
As for the guys, I already addressed your opinions in other comments above and I do thank you for your points of view. Sometimes there are just things that guys go through that girls will never have the hope of understanding, and vice versa. Perspectives are always enlightening though!
And to close out, the reason the original story was written at length was to try to give anyone as exact a position as possible so they may understand the overwhelming feelings someone happens to be experiencing at the time. No matter how common it may have happened around the world, how old the story, it’s always new and fresh when it hits someone for the first time. It was done in hope that some females here would do just what they did and hang tough, getting through the novella and share some personal insights and maybe some personal pain as well- all in hopes that some other girl out there they didnt even know and would never meet, might feel better knowing she isnt alone. Thanks for that.
I’m late to all this, but as I was reading it, I;m reminded of a situation my brother was in. His best friend was dating a girl he was seriously interested in that my brother also found attractive, but he also knew and respected “the rules”, that you don’t make moves on your friends’ girls. However, the girl was not as committed to the friend and was trying to make it clear to my brother that she was interested in him without offending the friend. This went on for some time, until finally the girl had to make it quite clear to the friend where her interests were and that it was not about the qualities of the friend. She and my brother have been married for 36 years and have 2 splendid adult children and my brother and the friend remained friends for a while until distance and lifestyle drifted them apart. One never knows.
I’ve found that I can never paint one whole gender with the same brush. Horrid catty liars, people who cheat and steal and betray, people without consciences, without moral compasses belong in both genders. People of splendid morals, high values, wonderful trustworthiness, incredible friendships, of great humor, creativity, solid social consciences, people I would trust my life with also belong in both genders. I have found wonderful friendships in both genders. They are different, they have different energies, and they are both splendid. If someone is horrid, they are horrid in their own right, not because they are male or female, they are horrid because they are just horrid. Or splendid because they are splendid, not because they are one gender or the other.
I got along much better with women when I became more comfortable with myself as a woman, and stopped competing with women. Friendships with other women can be very special in ways that friendships with men can’t and viceversa. They are just different. I think men feel the same, that men have friendships with men that are different than the ones they have with women, not better or worse, just different. Different energies, different sharing.
I think your cousin is well rid of her “friend” Rae and she maybe needs some counseling to overcome some of her lack of confidence in herself, and to restore her confidence in her ability to choose friends. That’s my late take on it.drgnlvr wrote:I’ve found that I can never paint one whole gender with the same brush. Horrid catty liars, people who cheat and steal and betray, people without consciences, without moral compasses belong in both genders. People of splendid morals, high values, wonderful trustworthiness, incredible friendships, of great humor, creativity, solid social consciences, people I would trust my life with also belong in both genders. I have found wonderful friendships in both genders. They are different, they have different energies, and they are both splendid. If someone is horrid, they are horrid in their own right, not because they are male or female, they are horrid because they are just horrid. Or splendid because they are splendid, not because they are one gender or the other.
I got along much better with women when I became more comfortable with myself as a woman, and stopped competing with women. Friendships with other women can be very special in ways that friendships with men can’t and viceversa. They are just different. I think men feel the same, that men have friendships with men that are different than the ones they have with women, not better or worse, just different. Different energies, different sharing.I couldnāt agree more with you, drgnlvr. As someone whose worked multiple jobs, including two in which I was the only female employee out of a staff of about 15 and then 20+ male employees, as well as a member of two other very active forums comprised almost entirely of men, Iāve observed general nasty behavior such as cattiness, deceitfulness, and public slighting from individuals of both genders. The main factor was the character of the individual, not the gender. And personally, many, many lifetimes ago I gravitated towards male friendships, but now I value relationships with both genders because of what each offers.
Anyways, back on target, PT, your cousin is learning that we canāt always get the āclosureā we want. Itās frustrating, I know. I tend to agree with Barrdwingās comments, that it probably isnāt anything personal to Jenn. At least she saw Raeās true face now, rather than later.
Could have been worse, I say. And yes, being evil is a personal trait… I think everyone’s had a catty friend at one time or another. I remember telling this friend something *very* personal, and then I go to the reception at her wedding… and her father is joking about it to all of their relatives. Who I didn’t know. I almost killed her right then and there, newlywed or not. She tried to tell me that her father was psychic and pulled it from her head.
I asked her if she really thought I was that stupid and she said it just spilled. I’ve never trusted her with sensitive information since, although, since she did apologize, she is still my friend. Though not nearly as close.
But I’m one of those people, it’s not terribly hard to get my trust, but once you lose it, hoo boy. Just try getting it back.
Perhaps we have all had the experience of being on the other side of this too, where we inadvertently betrayed a trust or a secret we didn’t know was a secret or we were just young and naive about secrets or didn’t know the difference between secrecy and privacy. Then we couldn’t fix it, the trust was broken no matter how much we regretted it or got “forgiiveness”, it wasn’t the same or it just couldn’t ever be fixed at all and we just had to forgive ourselves and move on. It’s a very hard lesson to learn, it feels awful, but sometimes we have to learn it so we can know what it feels like and not do it to someone else.
PT, I definately agree…Nothing worse than a guy who fidgets around and plays coy with a girl. I am not particularly one to wait around forever while he hims and haws around wondering what woman he wants, if he wants one, etc.
If Jen still spends alot of time thinking about Jerry while being with Brian, most likely the relationship will fizzle out within a short time (A year is short to me anymore, since I turned 35) and Brian will find himself alone. (Just a bet
I am glad to be single. Either way, I am glad of that. You guys are too confusing to me. Either that or I always like the most indecisive ones. š š
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