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What would you do if one of your closest friends did this to you? This is a story about my cousin, Jenn, her very close friend Rae and a very cute guy named Jerry. I have to give you some background info that has led up to this situation because Im hoping someone will give me some feedback that I havent already tried to share with Jenn in order to help her through this. Suffice it to say, she is hurting very much and doesnt know what to think. Needless to say, she will never trust Rae ever again.
Jenn graduated from college last year. For the past several summers, she and Jerry had worked for Jenn’s godparents at a local beach club. Jerry is about 5 yrs older than Jenn with a very fast lifestyle. He’s a rocker and has dated famous women. Jenn, beautiful, is still rather timid when she doesnt know you and is nervous around guys she finds attractive. Sometimes she is so nervous, that she almost comes across as standoffish. Most guys of Jerry’s age can understand that. They had great summers together and great flirting with one another though it never led to anything physical. Jenn would have liked it too (and Jerry too, no doubt), but she is inexperienced and likes to take things very slow. My guess is that if Jerry had taken the lead a bit more, he would have been able to lead Jenn properly. But perhaps he was giving her space (maybe too much). Jenn talked about him all the time. She adored him- still does, despite what happened.
So, the summer ends and the year gets under way and Jenn has her first real job. There, she met her very good friend Rae. They became friends very quickly and were inseparable it seemed. They did so much together, Jenn even stayed over Rae’s house (Rae had a house with her boyfriend who she was trying to figure out how to break up with). Jenn always had a great time. What you need to know about Jenn is that she always seems to see the good in people. If she likes you and youre good to her, she really puts you on a pedestal and will do anything for you. She gets walked on a lot and ppl abuse her good nature. Some say that is partially her fault and I can see that but from my point of view, when ppl have been consistently good to me, even fawning, I dont take advantage of them.
Anyway, Jenn and Rae became very close. Rae is a bit older than Jenn- by about 8-10 yrs or so. Jenn looked up to her and everyone but everyone seemed to absolutely adore Rae. It was like no one disliked her. Heck, I even thought she was terrific. There was no real reason to dislike her. Very helpful, gracious, polite and friendly. Rae confided in Jenn that her relationship with her boyfriend was not mutual anymore and she wanted out of it. Her bf Dan, even knew that but he wasnt ready to let Rae go.
After only knowing each other for a few months, Rae told Jenn that she would be moving from the state to another where her younger sister would be attending college and where her father had already bought them a townhouse. Jenn’s heart sank because she feared losing her friend and not being able to spend anymore time with her (it irked and hurt her enough to have moved her into this life altering decision). Apparently, it was no big deal for Rae to offer for Jenn to move with her because the townhouse was certainly big enough. This idea was fraught with possibilities for Jenn because she would finally feel like she was striking out on her own and starting to live her own life. She loves her parents but now that college was over, moving on and up was her idea. This move out of state and with someone she knew and looked up to seemed like the perfect idea. So Jenn said yes and the plan was set for several months down the line.
After a while, Jenn thought of all the ppl she would be leaving behind; those that she loved and would miss terribly. Jerry was one of them. One night, she confided in Rae about her deep feelings for Jerry. I dont remember what Rae’s advice to Jenn was but I do remember what Rae did which is why Im telling you this story.
Jenn spent so much time at Rae’s house that she often had to give out that phone number if anyone wanted to find her. This is how Jerry wound up talking to Rae in the first place. Even when Jenn came home one day and found Rae and Jerry talking on the phone, she just never gave that another thought. She was very trusting and assumed it innocent. After all, Jerry didnt know Rae and Rae knew just how crazy Jenn was for him. In fact, she’d thought that Rae was trying to move things along for the 2 of them, hoping she was assuring that if Jerry were to make a bold move towards Jenn, that it would be reciprocated.
Few weeks passed and Jenn was at Rae’s as usual and they were watching TV that night. I dont know how the conversation started but basically Rae non-chalantaly had mentioned how she had gone on a date with Jerry and they’d gotten a hotel room and slept together. I thought I was floored enough when Id first heard that, especially since Rae knew of Jenn’s feelings for Jerry. But Jenn (stunned and in shock on the floor said she just continued to stare at the TV while listening to Rae’s account; too scared to know what to do or confront her or whatever) went on to say that Rae went into details about how ‘it’ was. Things, noises, etc. More than anyone needed to know- especially a friend who was in love with the guy Rae was talking about! And the weird thing is, Rae wasnt doing this to piss Jenn off at all. It was like she was just recounting her most recent date to her friend.
After the story was said and done, Jenn said she started to feel nauseous (I would). She got up and said she was going to go home because she wasnt feeling well. Rae accepted this without question. Jenn cried for weeks though she continued to be the same kind of friend with Rae as she’d always been. However, she said that now when she did spend time with Rae, that she (Jenn) was always on pins and needles, feeling nervous or sick around her.
See, Jenn is like me. Im the type of girl that if you introduce me to your bf, fiance, husband- whatever, while I can say how attractive the man may be, Id never become interested in him because I have some mental filter that immediately puts the guy in ‘brother’ mode since he is involved with a friend of mine. And Id especially not dare entertain a thought doing anything remotely physical with a guy that a friend of mine has a crush on & for whom she’s professed love!
Jenn is like me in another way too- non-confrontational. She really needs to be pushed to the outer limits to bring up even the smallest rub. Granted, Im older than Jenn and have more life experience, recognize certain attributes in myself and have learned to stand up for myself when necessary. But Jenn’s not there yet. She still moved with Rae, out of state but said it was still very weird.
Thing was, it was like Rae wouldnt let this one night stand die- in story at least. She kept finding ways of bringing it up which for Jenn, just reopened the wound each time. To me it was obvious Rae was now doing this to get a rise out of Jenn sometimes but also for some reason, Rae really didnt like Jerry suddenly (maybe he turned her down the next time or whatever; wounded pride; dunno). By this time, Jenn had mentioned to Rae that she was hurt that Jerry and Rae even got together and it made it uncomfortable. Each time his name came up anywhere (be it in a movie etc.,) Rae would find a way to bring it around to the actual Jerry and say something negative. And despite what had transpired, Jenn still had feelings for Jerry.
This first summer came around and Jenn decided to come back home for a few months. It was a great break from Rae and an opportunity to see her family, friends and Jerry again (they worked together again for the summer). Jenn said she was on eggshells around Jerry but Jerry didnt know that Jenn knew of this date he’d had with Rae. He didnt know how much Rae had been spouting off about him either. To him, it was apparently just another date or one night stand (but mark my words, if the feeling wasnt mutual from the girl, Jerry wouldnt take advantage of her. He could have anyone he wants he is that charming, cute and sincere despite some of the stuff youre hearing here).
Jenn said that she had this confrontational conversation all worked out in her head so well, that she’d been practicing it for months before her return home for this summer. This was a technique she said she was using cause she said she stunk at confrontation and if she practiced what she would say in her conversation (even though she knew there would be no yelling or anything- dont take the word ‘confrontation’ to mean loud and bold), she’d be less likely to stutter and stumble. Among bringing up Jerry and Rae’s night together, she’d wanted to explain why she was so shy and unsure when it came to sex (and there is a good reason though it’s not necessary to explain it here; she never got to fully explain it to Jerry anyway).
At the end of the summer, Jenn did take some time aside and talked to Jerry one night. She said that when she first even mentioned that Jerry and Rae had spent a night together, that Jerry was taken aback and looked at her like he had no idea what she was talking about. She said he was truly surprised and I do believe her. Jerry has been so candid in the past about his experiences, there was no reason not to be so about this one. Jenn said Jerry said he didnt know what she was talking about and that while he and Rae had gone out to a club and dinner one night, theyd never slept together. Becoming a bit more confident for some reason she couldnt figure out, Jenn said she played devil’s advocate and asked why he thought Rae would even do that. Jerry simply said that girls can be catty- which is true.
Jenn was stumped. Since the beginning of this, Id tried appeasing her with every explanation I could think of but Jenn kept shooting them down, always coming up with a ‘yeah, but…’ statement. She said when she returned back to Rae’s that suddenly Rae wasnt the same friend she’d once known (I say that perhaps thats because she knew Jenn and Jerry would talk and Rae would be caught in a lie so her attitude change was a pre-emptive strike to save face; in other words, she would be dumping Jenn as a friend before Jenn could do it to her because after all, no one dumps the wonderful Rae 🙄 ) Jenn said Rae was like ‘Sybil’; a total personality swap. Not the once loving friend.
Rae and her sister made it so uncomfortable in every way for Jenn (including making fun of and exploiting the fact Jenn managed to stay a virgin through college, as if that were a terrible thing that Jenn should be embarrassed about. Our family has always praised Jenn’s choice) that she has moved out to her first place on her own (she loves it). She still cant figure out who is lying- Rae or Jerry. I asked her what knowing the actual truth would bring her and she says, ‘the end to my curiosity and the true revelation of who is culpable.’ Truth be told, in other unmentioned aspects about Rae, she has some serious issues in that head of hers that she needs to work out. Not talking about guy things; just saying the girl needs some therapy despite the sweet outer layers she displays. She isnt what she seems and fooled Jenn- and me (and after all these years, Im certainly more leery of ppl so since she fooled me, I consider her good. If I was emotionally invested like my cousin, Id be taken in 3 fold). I wish Jenn could drop it as easily as I can but then Im so attached to my cousin, that indirectly, I cant get around this story either. I can drop Rae no problem, but cant drop what happens to Jenn. Understand? Jenn hasnt seen or talked to Rae since and she is fine with that.
So, after this long story, my basic destination is to find out your opinions. Would you do what Rae did? In other words, if your gal-pal came to you and professed her love for a guy, would you even consider going out with him whether it was his idea or not? Does anyone else believe in the unwritten rules of female friendship? If you were Jenn, what might you say to Rae or even Jerry? Im asking you to put yourself in Jenn’s position and make this story happen to you. Heck, maybe it has happened to some of you just like this. Story isnt unique. Im just out of things to say to Jenn even if she isnt talking about it as much as she use to. Im curious to know if anyone has something to say that I havent said already (to Jenn that is).
Spitball some thoughts about this. Id love to hear anything you have to say. Psychologically speaking (which is what some of my degrees are in), I’ll find other perspectives interesting with regard to this. Thanks for hanging in there and reading.
Well, I really wish that I could meet Jen because she sounds like me, and I could use a friend like her.
I would NEVER sleep with, date, or even touch a guy that my friend or family member liked. I tend to live by the golden rule about treating others as they would want to be treated, and because of that I would expect someone to keep their hands of my man as well.
I don’t know what the unwritten rules of female friendship is, but I may have witnessed it. Is it where your girl friends say stuff behind your back, and will do stuff to benefit themselves even if what they do to you is wrong or hurtful? If so, then I think that that type of behavior is immature, stupid, and women should feel ashamed if and when they do that to their gal-pal(s).
If I was Jen (and I know that confrontation is really hard), so I would write a letter, as long or short as it may be). I would tell Rae that she knows that what she said was a lie (I wouldn’t even hint that I still wasn’t sure), and then see if she responds, and if so, see what she says. I have personally learned that getting heated up, even in a letter, just spells bad news, so I would write it without insults or anything like that.
For Jerry, well…I wouldn’t know what to say to him. I guess I would have to recollect his initial reaction, and if I determined that it was truly a surprise reaction, then I would believe him. Plus, if he was lying, he would probably deny even going on a date with Rae.
PT…I missed you on the forum. 🙂
This happened to me to a much lesser degree. I liked a guy in middle school. Told my best friend about it. She went and dated him and wound up making out with him in front of me. We weren’t friends anymore after that. I know “middle school” doesn’t count as far as real relationships go, but it did instil in me the belief that you don’t date someone your friend is interested in unless you talk it out with them first. Even with your friends “Okay” you don’t flaunt it in front of them. It’s an awkward position to be in and to put someone in. It freaking sucks actually.
The unwritten rule of female friendship Im referring to here is the code that you do NOT entertain, much less act on any thoughts of your fellow girlfriends male companions. If any gal pal mentions (or shows) an interest in any guy, or introduces you to her current BF or significant other, that the rule is to simply put them in the ‘brother’ category.
But thats me. Even if I couldnt put them in brother category, Id keep my feelings and certainly actions to myself instead of letting my fingers do the walking on a man in my girlfriends’ lives. I can really sympathize with my cousin because years ago I was at a club with the very guy I was nuts about (on a date) and we ran into my ‘friend’ there. She asked what I was doing there with him and I broke down and confessed how crazy I was about him. I hadnt told anyone prior, that I was falling in love. That very same night, she saw to it that she got him stinkin’ drunk and when I was in the ladies room, she managed to get him to her car and take him to her house for a one night stand. I couldnt understand that behavior in her, never forgave her (or at least, never forgot), cut her out of my life and decided not to pursue anything with the guy. He didnt even remember the night- said it was more like a hazy dream. He was incredibly apologetic, etc., and though I forgave him, I could not continue to think of a relationship with him.
My situation was not that far off from Jenn’s, so her experience hits home with me on such a note which is why perhaps Im yammering about it here- because it’s hard for me to let go of and I cant take her pain away. Im thankful it’s lessened a bit but I remember all too well how things like that hurt.
Writing a letter has always been my ‘confrontation’ of choice. Ive always written well and I have suggested it to Jenn. She doesnt write as well but I offered to help her in any way she’d want me to if she decides to write a letter. For right now though, she hasnt seen or talked to Rae and it might be best to simply sever all ties. But, if this feeling still nags at her after a time, Im sure she’ll go for the letter. Knowing what I know now, I dont think Rae would have the guts to respond.
Im sorry if this or anything even near this kind of story has happened to anyone here. But I bet we have all had this experience to some degree. Weve all known those catty girls and they are usually left back in high school but sadly, there are some that have grown into full fledged felines. Thats why I keep my manicure up… in case the claws need to come out (even if in defense of a family member or friend) 😀
What a lot of hot air over nothing.
Did Jen wanted a committed guy or did she want a player? If Jerry “dated” – which nowadays generally means sleeping with – famous women, bedding one more slut hardly makes a difference. Either Jen shouldn’t have been shocked, because Jerry was only doing what he’d been doing for years, or she shouldn’t have been offended because she accepted he was a player. Or, if she’s as innocent as you portray her, she should have been thankful Jerry showed how easy he was before she got more involved with him and carried away a broken heart.
Obviously Rae was a jerk. But I’m sure this didn’t happen out of the blue. I don’t see what’s to discuss. Obviously she doesn’t trust Rae anymore. Maybe she’ll learn to choose her friends more wisely and learn to read people’s characters better from now on. And to look for men who don’t sleep around.Nevermind.
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http://www.sarahjestin.com/feedbacklists.htmDragonmedley- Jenn is out of there. I suppose Jenn simply wants to know why Rae, a supposed friend and convincing one at that, would go after a guy that her friend (that being Jenn) told her she was in love with. At the very least, she learned a lesson about Rae.
And Jenn doesnt walk around all doe-y eyed. She isnt naive in life altogether. Just because she is a virgin doenst mean shes dumb. Weve all also put trust in the wrong ppl.
And GB, Jenn was only shocked because this conversation was coming from her friend. She was never concerned or moved when Jerry spoke of other women in his past (though he didnt talk about it much; not like he flaunts his past because even I know him and he isnt like that. He isnt a player. Hes had relationships not a series of one night stands). And FYI, it *did* happen very much out of the blue. Furthermore, if this is all hot air and there was nothing to discuss, why bother to read and then respond to it? zzzztt… it’s rhetorical. Even enemies can show some respect. I know you dont like me so why bother post in a topic I start? This isnt about me.
I prefer to hear from ppl who actually care about this situation. Im sure it’s easy to go off on me just to get yet another thread shut down though… should have expected it.
Anyway, thanks to those of you who truly do care and want your sincere opinions (and not jabs) taken into actual consideration.
Oh yes. I understand this well. Hopefully Jenn stays away from Rae for good. Jerry sounds sorta like a player, but maybe on the down-hill slide of that. Most players are happy to tell anyone and everyone what they are. If he was open and honest with Jenn in the first place, perhaps Rae was a woman scorned. It sounds as though Rae told Jenn those things just to see if Jenn would go back and say anything. Perhaps Jerry called Rae and chewed her out and that is why Rae was such a weiner to Jenn when she got back. 😕
I don’t know, my advice would be for Jen to be careful if she is still interested in Jerry. I know how nerve racking it can be to really like someone and not be able to tell them. It sucks. 🙁
Rae was never as good a friend as Jenn thought either. You never, I mean NEVER, try to date, or steal your best friend’s crush, boyfriend, etc. You shouldn’t even date an ex of a friend, because there is a possiblity that there may still be feelings on your friend’s part. All my life, I have had guys stolen from me. I have been used by them, and cowed by men too. I am gullible, and a bit niave, since I hope most people are like me. I try to do unto others as I would have done unto me. Although gettng used by guys has a tendancy to make you skittish and it gets hard for guys to keep trying. They have such short attention spans if they don’t feel the same way about you. 🙄
And after a while, if enough of your friends do you wrong, or the same one does it enough, it makes it hard for you to want to make new friends, or hang onto the old ones. 🙁 Simply, it is hard to trust when you get used enough times by anyone.
Most of my friends, good friends, are men. I trust them more than women simply because I haven’t been taken advantage of by a male friend, but many female friends have walked all over me. I don’t take it well anymore, and I don’t stay quiet. And, sometimes, I miss the old me. 🙁What a sad story! I feel so bad for your cousin, PT, being used like that. And from the way you describe it, it does seem like Rae is a ‘user,’ very skilled with wearing a mask (almost with some of the traits of a sociopath, in a sense) and that Jerry is telling the truth. Just my ‘gut feel’ from the story.
As for the ‘unwritten rule’–I’m with you and eaglefeather on that too. I don’t date and have no interest in ever pairing off, but for me, trying to get involved with a guy a female friend of mine has expressed her attraction for is simply among the lowest forms of betrayal (only worse thing is stealing a friend’s husband). Doesn’t matter how much I might like him myself–the friend gets first ‘dibs’ and if the relationship fizzles naturally, then and only then, might I express my own interest.
Maybe your cousin needs to write that letter just to bring a sense of ‘closure’ for herself, but it’s probably best to never have anything to do with this Rae again.
My condolensces! I’ve gone through my own group of betrayals in the last few years, so I have great sympathy for Jenn’s pain. 🙁
Oh honestly, PT, what’s the point of getting huffy?
Jen is making a huge fuss over something that happens innumerable times to other people, because she made some poor choices, and you as a good friend are feeling for her. Fine. That is no excuse for you to attack me for not expressing sympathy with your friend, which you got to hear from everybody else. I said nothing at all about you; none of this was about you until you placed that little comment at the end of your accusatory paragraph.
But as you wish – I’ll refrain from commenting in any of your threads from now on.I had a good friend who used to beeline for whichever guy I had a crush on or was interested in. If she knew I liked him, then I guess she figured he was a good guy, and she would try to get him before I did.
She also dated all the exes of all the girls in our circle of friends. She dated mine the night I broke up with him. And when I found out she had, all the talk of reconciliation that I had with the guy went out the window. I had determined long ago that no one is going to do that to me. And I am never going to be anyone’s second choice.
The thing was, she couldn’t understand why I would get mad. I tried to explain it to her multiple times, but she was so self-centered that she couldn’t understand. I didn’t speak to her for many years – didn’t let her be too close to me again. Now we are sort of friends again because we are both married. There is no more animosity between us. I still don’t let her get too close though.
I hate to sound like a bad guy, but I have to say it as clearly as I can, as I’ve said it many times before:
This is a public forum. Anyone, anywhere on the internet can come and read, and respond if they have an account. Anyone.No matter if it was Melody, the Pope, my best friend, my grandma, someone I didn’t know– anyone– the advice I would give them is the same: If you don’t want everyone reading it, or if you don’t want certain people to respond, take it elsewhere. There are a bunch of blog sites out there- many of which many people here do use. Those places allow you to let only the people you want to have access to read what you write. This place is public.
Please don’t misunderstand– it is generally okay to come here and talk about random stuff in your life, this is a great group and we have many caring members. But always remember, this is a public place. You can’t expect to stand in a crowded public place and tell stories without getting feedback from people you may not want feedback from!
I will not argue this point.
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My art: featherdust.comGreater Basilisk wrote:Oh honestly, PT, what’s the point of getting huffy?
Jen is making a huge fuss over something that happens innumerable times to other people, because she made some poor choices, and you as a good friend are feeling for her.I GB! Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to debate with you, but I am trying to be a little empathetic to Jen, so don’t take what I am going to say wrong, okay? 😀
But This situation might happen to millions of people everyday, but from the sounds of it, this is the first time it’s happened to Jen, and it was understandably painful. Other people might have experienced it, but it doesn’t make it any less painful when it happens to you, especially the first time.
Jen really does sound a lot like me, so that’s why I think I can understand where she is coming from.
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