Venting a little

[SPark]

[SPark]

You guys are pretty nice and understanding, and I just feel like venting about this, because I am really upset. (Feel free to just skip this if you like.)

I do most of my socializing on the internet. My friends are scattered all over the world, and I don’t think it’s any less “real” when I only know them on line. A while back I met somebody through livejournal that I thought could become another good friend. The first thing I saw about her was that she’d posted a big long post about how she’s respectful of religion, even though she herself isn’t religious, and how she thinks it’s awful the way some atheists sneer down their noses at religious people. I thought that was pretty neat. It’s sadly rare to meet somebody who doesn’t feel they’re better than people because of being part of a religion, or because of how logicial and rational and smart they are to not be part of one, or whatever. So she seemed like somebody I could like.

Today she posted about this thing called the “Blasphemy challenge” that basically mocks, belittles, and sneers at Christianity, and said that she was going to take the “challenge” and record herself deliberately blaspheming.

I was just… shocked. I knew she didn’t believe, and I knew she didn’t think that there was anything wrong with blasphemy against God, since she doesn’t believe there is a God, and that’s fine. If she wanted to take this “challenge” I’m not going to say she shouldn’t. But that she was putting that out publicly, where she knew people like myself would see it, and saying how terrific it was, that she had so little respect for my faith as to do something like that right in front of me, that really was disappointing. I felt like all that talk about respecting my beliefs had been just talk, to make her look good, and that she hadn’t meant it.

So I told her so. I probably could have been nicer about it, but I wasn’t cruel or insulting, I just said, buntly, that I thought this was offensive, and that I was disappointed that she would be passing such a thing around.

Then her friends all jumped all over me for “overreacting.”

At that point I figured that there wasn’t anything I could do to salvage this, since anybody who thought that kind of thing wasn’t offensive at all wasn’t somebody I’d get along with. So I took her off my friends list, and went to go tell her that I was just going to drop this, that it was obvious we weren’t compatible as friends, so goodbye. And I found she’d demanded I pologize for overreacting, and then had locked her comments, so I couldn’t reply.

That, honestly, pissed me off. Demanding apologies and then making it impossible for me to respond and apologize even if I’d wanted to seemed really childish, and I was MAD, so I posted a pretty good venting rant in my own journal. She then e-mailed me, saying that it was my fault for taking her off my friends list, and that if I’d apologize and remove my post, she’d be friends again, but at this point it was too late for friendship, so I just deleted the letter. I don’t want to argue with her, I just am hurt and angry and upset that somebody I admired turned out to be not what I thought. It feels like I’ve been betrayed.

I’m sorry if you guys didn’t want to hear about my personal issues, but I’m just… really upset, and needing to blow off some steam and talk through it again. Hope I’m not upsetting anybody with this.

[frozendragon]

you know what…I think you were right….I’m not overly religious…but I think that’s because there’s a church on every corner here and people want to stuff it down your throat…

but I still would not say or do anything against the church….

Spdy….(everyone knows his name but I’ll go with screen name from now on)…is a lot more religious than I am….and I respect that and admire him for it…

atheism or whatever I don’t care…but if you want to be friends with someone you have to respect anything they do….like when Spdy dances…..not my cup of tea but I respect him and what he does and still he is my friend and I am proud that he is happy with what he does…..

that’s not really about religion….but it’s an example of different people doing different things….

if I was in the same position I would have probably done the same thing….

[sunhawk]

It sounds like, and looks like from what I can see, that you both overreacted a little and it’s a shame you two couldn’t work it out :/ It is very hard to know exactly how each person feels about their religion and religion in general so it’s easy for misunderstandings to arise, which is why religion (along with politics) is a topic that is sometimes discouraged on some messageboards and mailing lists. Issues of faith and our inner self seems to be a big red button for a lot of people.

[SPark]

Yeah. I know I probably shouldn’t have said anything at all, and just let it slide.

But I can’t be friends with everyone on the planet, and if somebody can’t respect my beiefs at all, even if we differ, I just can’t see there being any point to trying to make up with her.

She’s demanded I apologize. If I did, I’m sure she’d be happy, but I’m also sure that somewhere down the line she’d do something else that belittles my faith, and we’d just have the same falling out all over again. Some people are just not compatible, and she and I are ones that aren’t.

[Goldragon2!]

So sorry you feel like you lost your friend, but maybe you could pray for her and try to lovingly explain your faith so she can see how wonderful it is to believe in our awesome God. A testimony about how He has helped you or answered prayer would be a good start. Don’t give up, sometimes people come into your life for a reason, and even if you just plant a seed, maybe someone else could water it and help it grow. I hope I didn’t offend anyone, but I just wanted to offer some encouragement. Have a blessed Holiday Season!

[SPark]

Thank you for the encouragement. It’s hard to pray on behalf of somebody who’s hurt you, but I guess that’s why we needed to be told to love our enemies and bless those who despise us.

[sunhawk]

I do agree that if she is able to joke rather liberally about religion and you aren’t comfortable with that, it’s probably best in the long run for you to not have her LJ friended since she’ll probably make more jokes in the future that you won’t find funny, only offensive. I did see that she offered to filter her religious entries, though, for whatever that’s worth. It looks like she didn’t set out to purposely offend the religious, she was just playing fast and loose on her LJ, which I can say I’ve done myself on my own LJ now and then. You sort of consider it your space for your thoughts and sometimes that means you post things without serious consideration of anyone who could possibly be reading.

Certainly that doesn’t absolve anyone of responsibility for their words, especially if the words are accessible to the public and aren’t locked in a friends-only post.

But also we must consider our own words even as we are reacting to the words of others. I know it’s hard, very hard especially when you are still reeling from the original “blow” and that’s why I try to leave the computer if I find myself in a situation like that. Because I almost always regret what I write if i let myself write a reply as a reflexive action, not as a reflection on what was said, after time has passed. Can I be honest about my thoughts to what you said in reply to her post? I think some of what you said about her spiritual life was a little unfair. Things like “If you don’t have a deep, spiritual life to begin with, you’re not capable of committing the unforgivable sin. Anybody who could be swayed by three minutes of multi-media into denying the spirit never knew it in the first place.” are pretty serious things to say to someone, things I would not feel comfortable saying to someone that I had just met and did not know very well. Maybe you are right and maybe her spiritual life isn’t particularly deep, but it’s a really big judgement to make right off the bat.

I hope I’m not offending you, I’m just trying to give my two cents on the situation. I definitely feel that it’s a shame such a meaningless video gag made you feel so hurt because it’s not worth the attention. I can appreciate the sensitivity and sacredness you hold for your religion.

[sunhawk]

Goldragon2! wrote:

So sorry you feel like you lost your friend, but maybe you could pray for her and try to lovingly explain your faith so she can see how wonderful it is to believe in our awesome God. A testimony about how He has helped you or answered prayer would be a good start. Don’t give up, sometimes people come into your life for a reason, and even if you just plant a seed, maybe someone else could water it and help it grow. I hope I didn’t offend anyone, but I just wanted to offer some encouragement. Have a blessed Holiday Season!

I’m certainly not offended, since you so obviously mean well, but I think it may be prudent to point out that such efforts are usually not terribly effective on aetheists ^_^ I’m not one myself but I have a friend who has been an aetheist for a number of years and he’d be the first to tell you – he’s heard it all 😉

[SPark]

sunhawk wrote:

Things like “If you don’t have a deep, spiritual life to begin with, you’re not capable of committing the unforgivable sin. Anybody who could be swayed by three minutes of multi-media into denying the spirit never knew it in the first place.” are pretty serious things to say to someone, things I would not feel comfortable saying to someone that I had just met and did not know very well. Maybe you are right and maybe her spiritual life isn’t particularly deep, but it’s a really big judgement to make right off the bat.

I hope I’m not offending you, I’m just trying to give my two cents on the situation. I definitely feel that it’s a shame such a meaningless video gag made you feel so hurt because it’s not worth the attention. I can appreciate the sensitivity and sacredness you hold for your religion.

Nah, you’re not offending me at all.

But I’ve known her for some months before this, and she herself says that she is not spiritual at all. So I felt that it wouldn’t be upsetting to her for me to say this, as she’s said it herself.

I didn’t meet her yesterday and see this today, we’ve been talking for some time. And she has told me on several different occasions that she respects my faith. I guess that means something different to her than it does to me. I thought, that since she told me she repsected my beliefs, that she wouldn’t make fun of them. I guess she didn’t feel the same way. And that’s why this was such a shock. She was somebody I thought believed that Christianity was a good thing, and had said she disliked those who put it down and belittled it. Thus what she said there came totally out of the blue.

[sunhawk]

My apologies, your original post made me think that you two were still in the stages of learning about each other, it sort of seemed like this was a part of that process that just went horribly wrong.

Hmmmm well if she hasn’t had a post like that one before now and she hasn’t gone on since then to make more posts in a hostile-towards-Christianity vein, perhaps it was just a one-time joke or lapse in sanity. It seems like it would have come up before now if you’ve known her for months.

So maybe it really is out of the blue and how much it really reflects her beliefs about religion is thus still uncertain? I would want to wait for more evidence either way, if it was me, just to see if that impression pans out into a trend.

[SPark]

Maybe.

Maybe not. If I feel differently in a few days when I can be calm, I may contact her. But just now it’s not looking likely.

[sunhawk]

SPark wrote:

Maybe.

Maybe not. If I feel differently in a few days when I can be calm, I may contact her. But just now it’s not looking likely.

I think giving yourself some time is a good idea ^_^ Things usually look clearer after a few days

[Ssthisto]

Goldragon2! wrote:

So sorry you feel like you lost your friend, but maybe you could pray for her and try to lovingly explain your faith so she can see how wonderful it is to believe in our awesome God. A testimony about how He has helped you or answered prayer would be a good start. Don’t give up, sometimes people come into your life for a reason, and even if you just plant a seed, maybe someone else could water it and help it grow. I hope I didn’t offend anyone, but I just wanted to offer some encouragement. Have a blessed Holiday Season!

As a non-Christian non-atheist, that’d honestly offend me personally as much as the deliberate blasphemy would offend a Christian. Sorry, but my religion is just as valid as yours, I don’t need a ‘seed’ planting. This doesn’t mean I don’t respect Christians – it just means I do not like proselytising.

I can certainly understand WHY SPark was upset – I went through a LOT of heckling for my beliefs in high school and university (until I learned, the hard way, not to bother even mentioning it). I’ve been told I’m “Going to Hell” for the last twenty-two years. It would be equally distressing to me if someone I thought I could trust and who indicated they were unbiased and respectful towards the religious turned around one day and started mocking my beliefs and through them me.

There may be some ‘overreact’ on both sides.

I hope that you can come to a decision about continuing a friendship with this person that you can be content with – whether it be you decide that it was a momentary lapse in good taste (or that they just didn’t realise you’d be that offended) and stay friends or whether you decide that it was offensive enough that you really can’t in good conscience associate with them.

That said, I do have to admit that I have the feeling that, if she is expected to respect your religion… aren’t you going to accord her the same amount of leeway – that perhaps she really just wasn’t thinking about it and that she didn’t mean it as an offense to YOU… but that she is equally entitled to her beliefs?

[SPark]

Redacted, because MAN that sounded stuffy.

I’ve tried to not belittle her beliefs or lack thereof. It’s not what she belives that offended me, it’s what she DID. I’m not mad because she’s an atheist, I’m mad because she mocked something I take seriously. I haven’t mocked her. I told her I was offended. I told her she’d lost my respect. I never told her that her belief was stupid.

[Author]

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