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I dont know if this belongs in this forum on in Ask Melody. Did Siamese Bat Wing flappers ever come out with felt on the bottom that had NO logo and NO Windstone writing on it whatsoever? Just plan blank felt?
I received this item from eBay and something is telling me it is either extremely, VERY old, or is a fake. Felt isnt even cut to match the bottom of flapper like the other flappers have. The interference on the wings are not nearly as brilliant as every single other flapper Ive ever seen. Where there would be gold highlights like on the claws of the bat wings, there in no gold. The necklace quality is also very poor.
I havent taken pix yet but I want to contact the seller about this. She gave it a 9 out of 10 in perfection. BS! She said it only had a couple flea bites on face. True, but tail is missing paint as is the back wing and base when the Pena stamp is, and pretty much all over! Also there are serious chips out of the wings which she didnt note. It also looks as though the left ear was once shattered and some how repaired.
Well, as some of you know, I was looking for a broken down flapper, so I guess this will be the one. But now that means I am STILL on the hunt for a small Bat Winged Siamese flapper.
Yes, Im watching eBay but Ive been getting burned left and right (the last 4 pieces!) where ppl claim item is mint or excellent and I get it and tons of paint is missing and major chips they claim they never noticed. And Im not even looking close! They are just obvious to me.
So, any answer to fake flappers would be helpful- especially about the felt. Darn thing doesnt even have a sealant coat on it!
The small black and siamese flap cats have been retired for awhile. I’ve gotten two “mint” small black flap cats that have needed quite a bit of fixing up. The interference paint on them can vary quite a bit and will look faded if it is very dusty. Gold accents always come off. Some of the pieces I’ve gotten off of ebay were almost totally missing it.
Believe it or not the logo can apparantly come off. I have the start of this with my black bat winged flap cat. The logo is still there but part of the felt is coming off and with it the entire logo. I couldn’t get any good pictures of it tonight, but I’ll try again when there’s more light.
Can you post some pictures?
Working on the pix. But there was no logo fading… it simply is not there whatsoever. And, like I said and youll see, the felt is cut differently on the bottom than any of the other flaps I have or have ever seen.
My other point is too (and I communicated with seller as she was nice to begin with so I hope she responds), is that she said there was only flea bites on the face, otherwise, perfection. There are flea bites everywhere and, someone definitely poorly fixed a badly chipped ear which she didnt disclose. And the necklace is chipped too.
Again, this could work for the broken down flapper I was looking for, but again, means I’ll have to return to eBay and get me an actual Bat Wing Siamese flapper.
I’m with you on the frustration with the seller. Both of my small flapcats came to me with damage after being called mint. This is why I don’t buy to many Windstones from sellers that I don’t know on ebay. They’re usually not collectors and for some reason seem to be just fine with calling pieces with chips and paint rubs mint.
I’ll have to show you with pictures what is going on with the felt on my flap cat. It is hard to explain in words. It’s kind of like a top lay of the felt is coming off along with the entire logo while another layer is staying on the flap cat. The fact the the felt is cut funny is weird though. With the exception of some of the early PYO’s, the felt is usually cut very nicely.
Here are pix. I chose to do images instead of links so you didnt keep having to click links and opening new windows. Remember, the ONLY thing disclosed to me in auction was thte “fleabites” on face. She gave this flapper a 9 out of 10 in quality- 10 being MINT. You be the judge- and the judge of whether it could be a knock off (remember, there is no sealant on it either which I cant capture with camera as flash makes everything glare).
Felt pad comparisons:
Ear comparisons of perfect flap on left and eBay one on right:
Close up of what I say is a damaged if not repaired ear:
Nose/face damage disclosed in auction:
Back wing chips and total lack of gold
Back wing again
Front profile damage
Necklace and arm damage
Missing paint on tail (how could you miss this)
More wing chips
And the felt again, not to mention paint rim damage but I dont care about that
URGH! What I just noticed is that seller charged me $13.00 for USPS First Class Mail shipping for a package of 10 ounces. Checking the shipping calculator from his zip to mine, it should have been $2.66 !!! 😯 And, he charged me $3.00 insurance for an item that was $36 (well, plus shipping).
I have politely sent an email to this seller (who was sweet as pie during auction both times), asking for explanation for such over charges in shipping and insurance as well as sending the photos above with request for explanation.
Im sure I’ll be ignored but when that happens, what do I do from here? Can you report it to eBay- is it even worth it? I just despise dishonesty and in the past, I only ever had to deal with ONE loser on eBay- ever. So this kind of ticks me off. What would you do?
Miss Melody is probably going to ask you if the weight is the same between the two. It looks real to me. Could use some gold touch-ups. You said there was no gold, but I see some in the pics. I hope you get it worked out. As for the shipping, just point out to the seller that you were overcharged and they may refund you. As for it being a fake, only a die hard collector would know that off hand. I would not hold that against them too much. Is the Pena mark there?
I have one of the original bat flappers and the gold paint rubbed off in exactly the same way; the colored dots on the necklace faded/rubbed off, too. I also had the ear chips and necklace chips. I’m not rough with my Windstones…I think it’s just “old age” showing on them. That said, all damage/repairs should have been disclosed to you. Good luck with the seller.
Edited to add: I will check the felt pad on it later today. It’s in the (dark) bedroom and I don’t want to break anything, like my neck. lol
I didnt say there was no gold anywhere- I said there was no gold on the very tips of the claws of the wings. Since gold has rubbed off else where, I can compare and see that there was no gold to being with on those claw tips. Im not trying to pull a fast one on you guys! Im just venting and looking for validation & support.
In reviewing the auction, it only offered shipping via USPS Priority. That is what he charged me. Meanwhile 2 weeks later, he sends it First Class Mail which would have been $2.66. Id have appreciated saying “Im gonna be late sending this out,” which would have been fine but offering one shipping method, charging for it and then using a cheaper shipping method and pocketing the difference is irresponsible.
In the end, I have recently been looking for a broken down flapper (though not what I paid for this one considering its damage- if seller was truly honest, it would have sold for less). So, now I have it which is fine for my purposes. BUT- now I have to find a trustworthy seller who I can believe is selling a “flawless” siamese bat flap. I have contacted current sellers in auction and asked them to double inspect their cats.
Pena stamp is there, just not as crisp as my other flappers (which could also be due to age). As for weight, the scale shows him to be a bit lighter than the black bat wing flapper I have.
From the pictures, I’m positive he is real Windstone. But he is in bad shape. The felt looks like the real thing also…Windstone might have changed the way the cut their felt.
😡 The seller was not upfront with you about the damage. He should pay you back some money about that.I think the seller was dishonest about the condition of this little guy but on the bright side it looks like you got one of the rarer, older pieces. 🙂
purplecat wrote:I think the seller was dishonest about the condition of this little guy but on the bright side it looks like you got one of the rarer, older pieces. 🙂
Maybe but still with a LOT of damage… Which I’m thinking is not what PT was looking for.
PT, did you pay with paypal? or a credit card? If the seller refuses to refund I would just let them take care of it. This item was obviously badly misrepresented.
I know ebay is always a hit and miss kind of place, but on top of looking for items that are identified as mint, I also look for a seller with perfect feedback (and I do mean no neutrals because a neutral is often left by someone who’s afraid of leaving a negative in case of retaliatory feedback)… Unless I know the seller and then I’m not as strict.
Is the bottom of the felt pad really rubbed? It could be that the Windstone logo was just rubbed right off. I have a discussion up on the Ask Melody board about a weird looking bird wing flapper that I got recently, and Melody told me that if you look under the felt pad, there should be letters scratched into the bottom of the figure. This is the mark of the person who trimmed and finished the piece before painting. If you wanted to try and peel back the felt, that would definitely tell you if you had a real or fake.
Although the piece definitely isn’t near mint, fixing it up wouldn’t require much work at all. I’ve touched up several flappers and would be happy to do the same for yours, should you decide to keep it.
Forever seeking: Blackwatch the raffle Old Warrior, Jennifer Miller's pieces, and GB Baby unis!
PhoenixTears wrote:I didnt say there was no gold anywhere- I said there was no gold on the very tips of the claws of the wings. Since gold has rubbed off else where, I can compare and see that there was no gold to being with on those claw tips. Im not trying to pull a fast one on you guys! Im just venting and looking for validation & support.
In reviewing the auction, it only offered shipping via USPS Priority. That is what he charged me. Meanwhile 2 weeks later, he sends it First Class Priority which would have been $2.66. Id have appreciated saying “Im gonna be late sending this out,” which would have been fine but offering one shipping method, charging for it and then using a cheaper shipping method and pocketing the difference is irresponsible.
In the end, I have recently been looking for a broken down flapper (though not what I paid for this one considering its damage- if seller was truly honest, it would have sold for less). So, now I have it which is fine for my purposes. BUT- now I have to find a trustworthy seller who I can believe is selling a “flawless” siamese bat flap. I have contacted current sellers in auction and asked them to double inspect their cats.
Pena stamp is there, just not as crisp as my other flappers (which could also be due to age). As for weight, the scale shows him to be a bit lighter than the black bat wing flapper I have.
Considering the damage to his ear, and other parts, the weight difference if were talking very little, could very well be from those losses. The ear was definately broken and not repaired, just painted over. As for the claw tip missing gold, I’ve gotten a few dragons where this has happened, most likely someone in the factory missed that one, happens all the time, check your other dragons, etc…I bet you will find one missed somewhere, I know I have.
I’m sorry you got ripped considering the damages, but my two cents, I think he’s legit, just a bit banged up.
Kyrin
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