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I won’t be posting my art up here any more.
If you are interested in my art, you can pm.
If you would like to keep tract of new art I post, you can bookmark my permanent gallery: http://koishii-kitty.deviantart.com/I’m very saddened that these new “old” rules the forum seems to be now enforcing, is stifiling so many wonderful artists ability to showcase their artwork safely and with pride. Each incident makes me feel more and more as if Windstone feels threatened by other members, who are also artists, and I find the conflict of interest to be unsettling. Especially for people like myself who spend their whole paycheck on supporting the company’s growth by constantly making sure I have all the latest pieces Windstone produces and paying massive amounts of money of Limited pieces on ebay. I never thought of Windstone as a “corperate entity” and that’s why I really loved it, it’s employees, and this forum, and honestly, I enjoyed spending all my hard on money on their sculptures to help a company who seemed to support all of us as much as we all do them… Koishii is right… it’s just not fun anymore. I may not be on very often any more myself… I’m sad to say.
I will follow yur artwork to the ends of the earth Koishii! I look forward to seeing more of your wonderful artwork on your sites. *hugs*
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Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry Dragonsdrag0nfeathers wrote:I’m very saddened that these new “old” rules the forum seems to be now enforcing, is stifiling so many wonderful artists ability to showcase their artwork safely and with pride.
Hi! I am trying to understand. What new ‘old’ rules are you talking about? I am only aware of the very recent problem we are having, and trying to amend.
I am curious how you feel this is stifling artists from showcasing their original artworks?Quote:Each incident makes me feel more and more as if Windstone feels threatened by other members, who are also artists, and I find the conflict of interest to be unsettling. Especially for people like myself who spend their whole paycheck on supporting the company’s growth by constantly making sure I have all the latest pieces Windstone produces and paying massive amounts of money of Limited pieces on ebay.
I am again confused! Each incident? What others have there been? Thus far I have only seen issues where there has been an infringement of Trademark, Trade Dress, or Copyright (either accidental or not– and trust me, I understand that the accidental ones ARE accidents! Which is why we try our best to talk to the person in private and get things fixed so that they do not feel embarrassed in public). I will continue this thought below…
Quote:I never thought of Windstone as a “corperate entity” and that’s why I really loved it, it’s employees, and this forum, and honestly, I enjoyed spending all my hard on money on their sculptures to help a company who seemed to support all of us as much as we all do them… Koishii is right… it’s just not fun anymore. I may not be on very often any more myself… I’m sad to say.
Here is the bit I am not understanding, and I hope you or other members can explain to me so that we can fix things. 🙂 Thus far, I have only seen Windstone protecting its Trademarks, Trade Dress, and Copyrights. This is the sticky bit about Trademark and Trade Dress… unless the company in question (in this case Windstone) actually actively protects their Trademark and Trade Dress any time they see something that might be a problem, they can lose that protection. Literally! Unlike Copyright, where you don’t legally have to police it for it to remain valid (though it can weaken in a court, but that’s another matter), failure to protect one’s Trademarks and Trade Dress is a huge problem, and Windstone could stand to lose their protection, legally, if they ever did face a court battle with someone serious.
I think what John was trying to say in the other thread, and maybe it didn’t come across properly, is that they’re trying to protect the company and product that they’ve spent over half their lives fighting to create and produce. The problem here is that Windstone is NOT a big company with little to loose if there are legal problems. They are a small company, mostly run these days by family and friends, and they stand to loose everything if they do not try to protect their stuff.
I know, as an artist myself, that there is a terrible balance to be had, between the need to protect one’s work (sometimes at the expense of looking like a jerk :/ ) and the want to be nice to everyone. But the truth is… small time businesses and individuals are often more aggressive about protecting their art because they do stand to loose everything if they get sucked up in a legal battle, whereas big corporations stand to loose less. The irony is that the small company or individual doesn’t have the money a big company has to toss into legal problems… and therefore the small company tries to nip problems in the bud before they ever GET to be legal problems!
Back to what I was saying earlier though… Windstone is a family company, and as such I hope to get feedback from you guys– yes, for real, about what is upsetting you. I am not, by any means, the legal voice nor the business voice for Windstone. I’m just a painter and I happen to mod the forum as well, and really as an artist peer myself I really want to be the bridge between you guys and Windstone so that we can meet in the middle and figure out what to do. 🙂
Thanks for reading!
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My art: featherdust.comI think the “old” new rule she is talking about is that not really a ruling. At least the wording was not there, it just suggested the use.
Where John mentioned that the forum was never “meant” to be used for selling art….and yet it seems no one at all knew it was never “meant” for that. It feels….missleading.
I can’t speak for other artists that have left, but for myself It just feels uncomfortable. It feels like there is too much conflict of interest. I get how the company has to protect thier stuff and I know why…and that is fine. I really do understand that part… so trying to share art….in a space that company owns, where they absolutely have to protect thier art as well…
I really am having a hard time wording it in an understandable way, but the over all situation has a very unstable feeling. IT could be due to my lack of experience in something like this as well. So at the moment I personaly am going to just be putting more of my focuse with my art on other sites, at the moment it is just less stressful. (even though I do love the attention a lot of you give!)
(I hope that made some sense)
It’s also dissappointing to have my words completely picked apart which I figured was going to happen. I don’t think anything I wrote could be misconstrued as confusing. I understand everything you are saying Jennifer, I truly do. I fully understand. It’s just an opinion from an outsider looking in. There indeed have been SEVERAL situations where copyright issues were a problem, most completely justified I know. I’m not about to ramble off a list of the people out of respect for those people obviously, but from PYOs on ebay somewhat close to production colors, to sculptures looking as if Melody’s work influenced them a little too much. Then issues with “wording” kind of topped it off. Even some ebay auctions that get pulled down I don’t completely understand, but again, there are some that are obvious violations and those I get. I suppose since I don’t run my own company I don’t need to go to great lengths to protect myself or my art so perhaps I don’t fully understand some tactics. There have been quite a few instances, and several of MY friends have left this forum because of it, that’s all I’m saying. Therefore, I am sad and voicing my outsider opinion as I continue to have less and less friends Pming a hi there and hello. I think there are better ways for these situations to be handled in the future that don’t cause honest members to turn their back on this place. I really & truly hope a nice meeting ground somewhere in the middle can be met between artist and Windstone, as well as Windstone making it’s policies a little more clear on the forum that way things like this don’t happen anymore.
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Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry Dragonsdrag0nfeathers wrote:It’s also dissappointing to have my words completely picked apart which I figured was going to happen. I don’t think anything I wrote could be misconstrued as confusing. I understand everything you are saying Jennifer, I truly do. I fully understand. It’s just an opinion from an outsider looking in. There indeed have been SEVERAL situations where copyright issues were a problem, most completely justified I know. I’m not about to ramble off a list of the people out of respect for those people obviously, but from PYOs on ebay somewhat close to production colors, to sculptures looking as if Melody’s work influenced them a little too much. Then issues with “wording” kind of topped it off. Even some ebay auctions that get pulled down I don’t completely understand, but again, there are some that are obvious violations and those I get. I suppose since I don’t run my own company I don’t need to go to great lengths to protect myself or my art so perhaps I don’t fully understand some tactics. There have been quite a few instances, and several of MY friends have left this forum because of it, that’s all I’m saying. Therefore, I am sad and voicing my outsider opinion as I continue to have less and less friends Pming a hi there and hello. I think there are better ways for these situations to be handled in the future that don’t cause honest members to turn their back on this place.
Okay! Well, I know some situations have been confusing as to why they happened. I definitely don’t deal with these myself as it’s not my business, so I can understand how as an outsider looking it it can be confusing. The truth is that most of the time when problems occur, it’s not intentional… e.g. someone not realizing they were getting ‘too close’ to a Windstone color, etc. In these cases, it looks pretty crummy to someone looking in, because they see a friend an/or artist peer get their stuff pulled down by Windstone, without explanation. I totally see how that looks crappy! From what I have seen, Windstone will deal with these matters in private, one-on-one with the person involved, to resolve them.
You mentioned better ways to handle things in the future- what are your thoughts on that? 🙂 I would love to hear them, genuinely!
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My art: featherdust.comKoishiiKitty wrote:Where John mentioned that the forum was never “meant” to be used for selling art….and yet it seems no one at all knew it was never “meant” for that. It feels….missleading.
I agree– I understand, and that is pretty much my fault. I didn’t forsee this coming up, and thus there was no rule yet, and so for it to be suddenly policed was not a good feeling. I do want to apologize for it! This is why I’m glad we’re all talking about it. I want to help, not hinder!
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My art: featherdust.comHonestly, I wish I had a helpful idea to keep this from happening. Having the General Arts Section is great for “sharing” artwork, but only really difficult for those situations when people (like myself) clammer over someones great work and will and ask “hey there wonderful artist I wasn’t even aware of until be meeting you through this forum! How can I get myself one of those lovely pieces of art?” It just becomes a problem that can’t be avoided unfortunately, and when Windstone picks and choose who can and who can’t do it because of copyright issues it’s seen as being unfair or biast towards certain individuals. (again, from some artists standpoints and I’m not one of them so it’s just an opinion as an outsider on the subject) I guess it’s one of those vicious circles that have no happy ending really, but hopefully in the future there can at least be a better meeting of the minds and clearer rules and regulations of do’s and don’t for the forum as far as that goes. I know the issues are handled privately which is good. I’m not sure what else can really be done other then that.
A start would be getting some of those policies John was speaking if posted somewhere where you can’t miss them.
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Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry Dragonsdrag0nfeathers wrote:A start would be getting some of those policies John was speaking if posted somewhere where you can’t miss them.
You bet! I am working on getting that ASAP. 🙂
Quote:Having the General Arts Section is great for “sharing” artwork, but only really difficult for those situations when people (like myself) clammer over someones great work and will and ask “hey there wonderful artist I wasn’t even aware of until be meeting you through this forum! How can I get myself one of those lovely pieces of art?”
Hmm, I see! Well.. usually, when I am approached about this sort of thing in places where I don’t want to necessarily advertise myself, but am asked if my work is for sale, I will respond “Why yes, but please contact me at (email address) and we can discuss!” Do you think that is a fair solution? That way the business isn’t being conducted on the forum, but people have a way to contact the artist if they want to purchase things. I know I have posted my work on other forums, just to share it, and got some comments about people wanting to buy prints, etc… which is flattering!! So I either PM’d those that asked, or asked them to contact me and we’d discuss in private. 🙂 Discovering new artists here is awesome! I don’t want to stifle that!! I think that, based on what John is saying, the commercial sale of artwork (or, any item) on the forum is what seems to be the problem. I will work on getting those rules up soon so that it’s clear what we mean by ‘commercial sale’.
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My art: featherdust.comSounds good to me, but it’s the artists here who need to truly voice their opinions
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Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry DragonsJennifer wrote:KoishiiKitty wrote:Where John mentioned that the forum was never “meant” to be used for selling art….and yet it seems no one at all knew it was never “meant” for that. It feels….missleading.
I agree– I understand, and that is pretty much my fault. I didn’t forsee this coming up, and thus there was no rule yet, and so for it to be suddenly policed was not a good feeling. I do want to apologize for it! This is why I’m glad we’re all talking about it. I want to help, not hinder!
Personaly, wouldn’t it be your employer that should have informed you of some sort of guide lines to steer us in as far as posting/selling art? Being that it has gone on for such an amount of time I find it hard to think that it was not seen by them, I hardly think you need to apologize, but I do thank you for it. You are extremely diplomatic in handling these stressfull situations here.(well at least I would think this is some what stressfull @_@ )
I can understand that the forum is still knew to them, and while the company of windstone may be extremely knowledgeable in all the legaltechnacalities, this is still,the forum, a new area of learning. :-/
At the moment it just seems to….suck.I couldn’t have said that better myself… I’m unclear there as well. Even Jennifer has sold artwork other then Windstones and advertised her beautiful book here… it’s all very confusing what’s allowed and what’s not allowed. 🙄
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Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry DragonsHeck, I’m not an artist and I feel for you guys!
I think, Jennifer, that your solution sounds good. But what about stuff that gets put up for sale/trade that isn’t “artistic”, so to speak? Like other types of figurine, etc. Some people offer things for sale, stating that they got the permission to do so from a mod, but others don’t. We’ll need clarification on that too, I think (and here speaks the person who sells the least on the forum!).
What about links to stuff on ebay that are not Windstones? Sometimes we share the person’s website, but other times, it’s an example on ebay. Is that wrong advertising?
Just throwing out ideas here…
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