Homeschooling…

[Mimi]

I think you’re right. We have to remember that our government is run by the rich who, in many cases, have a personal interest in seeing that various laws which benefit companies, special interests, etc. get passed. Plus they generally don’t want to do things which will prevent them from getting re-elected.

[Skigod377]

mimitrek wrote:

But there are a lot of issues to consider though. In regards to the death row issue — I’ve read about quite a few cases where the person convicted was innocent. If we execute people without this lengthy process, how can we minimize the chance that we’re executing an innocent person?

Im not saying whak everyone right away, but how about if you have several reliable witnesses or they confess? Why keep them? Our jails are overcrowded and I will tell you true: there is more corruption and crime being commited in there than on the streets. We need to weed them out.

mimitrek wrote:

As far as illegal immigration goes, I think this has to be solved by preventing people from getting here in the first place, and enforcing strict penalties on companies that hire these people. But there are a lot of difficult issues here…like illegal immigrants who have kids who grew up in the US. The parents may have committed a crime, but why should the kids have to suffer for it?

They got here under illigal means and popped out a baby. Since when does that make them automatically exempt? What gives an infant the right to claim citizenship just becasue their mother managed to elude border patrol? Send the whole family back home. As far as im concerned, the child is not a citizen untill they contribute… not milk… the system. That whole policy needs to be revamped.

mimitrek wrote:

Not to mention that various businesses would be negatively impacted if we didn’t have illegal immigration — California agriculture for one.

Funny… I am reading about agriculture all afternoon! Honestly, our situation is hurting our country more than helping it. Because of industrialization our diets, environment, and small owned buisnesses have suffered. We are over-populated and lazy! We need to back to the hunting/foraging days when we had variety in our diet, and we didnt harm the environment.

mimitrek wrote:

And I think what you mentioned about the taxes is really part of a bigger issue — if you’re rich enough, the laws don’t apply (or some way can be found to get around them).

Thats crap! Viva la resistaunce! 😆

[Mimi]

skigod377 wrote:

mimitrek wrote:

But there are a lot of issues to consider though. In regards to the death row issue — I’ve read about quite a few cases where the person convicted was innocent. If we execute people without this lengthy process, how can we minimize the chance that we’re executing an innocent person?

Im not saying whak everyone right away, but how about if you have several reliable witnesses or they confess? Why keep them?

That’s the problem though — how do you draw the line where the testimony is sufficient to make a decision? There have been cases which seemed pretty solid at the time, and then, after many years, the guy was found to be innocent after all because new evidence was brought to light, or old evidence was re-evaluated using new technology. And there have been cases where the guy confessed even though he wasn’t guilty. So I think what you suggested would work in the majority of cases, but can we take a chance of executing even one person wrongly? That’s the part that I find really troubling.

skigod377 wrote:

Our jails are overcrowded and I will tell you true: there is more corruption and crime being commited in there than on the streets. We need to weed them out.

Mos def! Actually, at one point I was reading an article about a prison riot where a number of prisoners got killed. It seems crazy that on the one hand the system goes to great lengths to avoid executing anyone wrongly, while people are getting killed in prison for various reasons all the time.

skigod377 wrote:

mimitrek wrote:

As far as illegal immigration goes, I think this has to be solved by preventing people from getting here in the first place, and enforcing strict penalties on companies that hire these people. But there are a lot of difficult issues here…like illegal immigrants who have kids who grew up in the US. The parents may have committed a crime, but why should the kids have to suffer for it?

They got here under illigal means and popped out a baby. Since when does that make them automatically exempt? What gives an infant the right to claim citizenship just becasue their mother managed to elude border patrol? Send the whole family back home. As far as im concerned, the child is not a citizen untill they contribute… not milk… the system. That whole policy needs to be revamped.

Those are valid points, and I think for the situation that you mentioned my view would be the same as yours. I was thinking more about families that had been here a long time, where the kids had grown up in the country. There was an article last summer about a local boy who entered the country as an illegal immigrant (I think his parents brought him to the US when he was a baby) and he was graduating high school as the valedictorian. Even though he’s an illegal immigrant, he’s an American for all practical purposes, and extremely bright, hardworking, and motivated — and his whole life is here. I don’t think it would be fair to force him to go back to Mexico, and it would be robbing the US of a productive citizen. But if he doesn’t have to go, then where do you draw the line? The only solution that I can think of is that maybe these things need to be decided on a case by case basis.

skigod377 wrote:

mimitrek wrote:

Not to mention that various businesses would be negatively impacted if we didn’t have illegal immigration — California agriculture for one.

Funny… I am reading about agriculture all afternoon! Honestly, our situation is hurting our country more than helping it. Because of industrialization our diets, environment, and small owned buisnesses have suffered. We are over-populated and lazy! We need to back to the hunting/foraging days when we had variety in our diet, and we didnt harm the environment.

Given how the population is growing, I think the only thing that we can do is to have policies that are as environmentally conscious as possible. There’s just no way to produce enough food to feed everyone unless we use modern agriculture, which means huge farms. I remember reading that with modern farms you could support something like 200 times as many people per acre as you could with hunting/foraging. I think hunting/gathering is a lot healthier, but you’d need a lot more land.

skigod377 wrote:

mimitrek wrote:

And I think what you mentioned about the taxes is really part of a bigger issue — if you’re rich enough, the laws don’t apply (or some way can be found to get around them).

Thats crap! Viva la resistaunce! 😆

😆 😆 😆

[Skigod377]

mimitrek wrote:

That’s the problem though — how do you draw the line where the testimony is sufficient to make a decision? There have been cases which seemed pretty solid at the time, and then, after many years, the guy was found to be innocent after all because new evidence was brought to light, or old evidence was re-evaluated using new technology. And there have been cases where the guy confessed even though he wasn’t guilty. So I think what you suggested would work in the majority of cases, but can we take a chance of executing even one person wrongly? That’s the part that I find really troubling.

Bah! Whak em all!! J/k. you have valid arguments. Im just saying, when a case is cut and dry, stop wasting money on them. There are many cases that this can be applied to. No, not all, but enough to make a financial impact.

mimitrek wrote:

There was an article last summer about a local boy who entered the country as an illegal immigrant (I think his parents brought him to the US when he was a baby) and he was graduating high school as the valedictorian. Even though he’s an illegal immigrant, he’s an American for all practical purposes, and extremely bright, hardworking, and motivated — and his whole life is here. I don’t think it would be fair to force him to go back to Mexico, and it would be robbing the US of a productive citizen.

Mexico could use a kid like that.

mimitrek wrote:

But if he doesn’t have to go, then where do you draw the line? The only solution that I can think of is that maybe these things need to be decided on a case by case basis.

I think if they follow the rules to become a citizen, they contribute to society, then let them stay. Im all for immigration! Its illigals I dont like. They are already spitting on our judicial system by breaking the law to get here. What kind of citizen will that make? There are places in the US where you can walk into a neighborhood and not even the store manager can speak English. Are you kidding me? Who is regulating over there??

mimitrek wrote:

Given how the population is growing, I think the only thing that we can do is to have policies that are as environmentally conscious as possible. There’s just no way to produce enough food to feed everyone unless we use modern agriculture, which means huge farms. I remember reading that with modern farms you could support something like 100 times as many people per acre as you could with hunting/foraging.

You are right. Thats the dang Neolithic Revolution that started that! And look what happened! The first population explosion! I think the population needs to stop growing. Here I expect arguments. I think folks should not be allowed to have more than 4 kids, max. What makes their genes so great that they can help overpopulate the world? Many are reproducing and cant even care for their children. Catholics (The majority of hispanics) dont beleive in birth control… so they come on over, reproduce, and hop on welfare. Our country is in crisis with global warming and here we are, doing very little to stop it. Eventually the government will have to step in and regulate since we cant seem to stop self destructing. Instead, we are helping people live longer, producing more children, and coasting through life blaming the government because we have come to rely on them to make us do the right thing.

[Mimi]

skigod377 wrote:

mimitrek wrote:

There was an article last summer about a local boy who entered the country as an illegal immigrant (I think his parents brought him to the US when he was a baby) and he was graduating high school as the valedictorian. Even though he’s an illegal immigrant, he’s an American for all practical purposes, and extremely bright, hardworking, and motivated — and his whole life is here. I don’t think it would be fair to force him to go back to Mexico, and it would be robbing the US of a productive citizen.

Mexico could use a kid like that.

😆 😆 😆

skigod377 wrote:

mimitrek wrote:

But if he doesn’t have to go, then where do you draw the line? The only solution that I can think of is that maybe these things need to be decided on a case by case basis.

I think if they follow the rules to become a citizen, they contribute to society, then let them stay. Im all for immigration! Its illigals I dont like. They are already spitting on our judicial system by breaking the law to get here. What kind of citizen will that make?

I agree. But I do feel sympathetic towards them because they’re just trying to have a better life for themselves and their families, the same as anyone else…only they were born on the wrong side of the border.

skigod377 wrote:

mimitrek wrote:

Given how the population is growing, I think the only thing that we can do is to have policies that are as environmentally conscious as possible. There’s just no way to produce enough food to feed everyone unless we use modern agriculture, which means huge farms. I remember reading that with modern farms you could support something like 200 times as many people per acre as you could with hunting/foraging.

You are right. Thats the dang Neolithic Revolution that started that! And look what happened! The first population explosion! I think the population needs to stop growing. Here I expect arguments. I think folks should not be allowed to have more than 4 kids, max.

The cost of living where I am is so high that its rare to find anyone with more than two kids! None of my friends are planning to have more than 2…a lot of them have only 1 and don’t plan to have any more…and some don’t plan to have kids. 4 kids… *shudder* …its frightening to think how much money you’d have to make to support 4 kids and put them through college.

skigod377 wrote:

What makes their genes so great that they can help overpopulate the world? Many are reproducing and cant even care for their children. Catholics (The majority of hispanics) dont beleive in birth control… so they come on over, reproduce, and hop on welfare.

The welfare system definitely needs to be fixed!

[wolflodge100]

it is truly amazing the way these threads evolve, from home schooling to global economy to wacking murderers! 😀 you guys all have a great debate going. I am enjoying reading it.

[Mimi]

This is so funny! I hadn’t noticed how far off topic that we’d gone. But when I went back and checked just now, I saw that we were only on topic until the end of page 2. 😆

[Skigod377]

There goes Chessies noble plan to not hijack the Phobia topic. The hijacked thread got hijacked.

[Mimi]

😆 😆 😆

[Bob]

WOW do you knwo how long it took me to try to catch up on this post?? How far off topic you guys took it??
Well in this country one of the first things we need to to is revamp out medical. No one except the very welthy can get sick and pay for it. We also need to work on respecting our elders and not just tossing them in the streets when they get to old. You also have to think about how many of the elderly are still living but not able to work due to age or health. What do we do with them?? It’s not their fault that they gto to old to work. We the workign class are supporting them. Just like marriage back in the day it was set up as until death do us part but in those days no one was living past about 35 and then you where reallt old. You where dying from disease or just having to work yourself to death.
Part of the problem is also now a days you can not afford to retire either. the prices of everything is so high now that you have to work in order to put food on your table.
I agree that we ahve to figure out some way to revamp welfare. I really hate seeing people abuse the system. Many years ago one of my ex bosses was trying to adopt his daughters daughter because she was born just so she could get more government money.
My sister is a college professor and they only way she could pay off her student loans (she got her Phd soit cost alot and took a long time) is by working in Kuwait. She is a professor at the American University in Kuwait. It’s really sad that she should have to go to such a unfriendly American country just to get out of debt. They also need to figure out a way for people to get a college education without doing what she did. She told me she owes over $100,000 for her education,THAT IS CRAZY!!! But how else could she get her education??

[John]

Chessapeaka wrote:

(My parents are cool, but they suffer from “our children are angels” disease… which they usually will acknowledge, but.. eh… I don’t like having my ego stroked when its not deserved. It’s always made me squeamish.)

I will briefly bring this back on topic, and again back off.

Hey, since they were born, we have tried our best to bring out the worst in our children. If we have failed it’s because they just don’t get it. Probably should have sent them to public school.

Next, if there are any doubts left about the value of home schooling then you need to reread the posts from our voice in Switzerland! All of them.

Finally, as there are too many posts to quote, I will try to add some points to the debate that came to mind.

Since when is the idea of creating a stable internal economy a “radical” idea? Isn’t that a conservative idea? Is a Global Village not a radical idea?

If you have a stable closed economy and create technical advances from which the rest of the world can benefit (and many countries can do that) why can’t you simply give that technology to the remaining countries that need it? I don’t see what, besides world corporate dominance, would prevent the dissemination of technology and information. (This may stick in the anti Socialist craw?).

There is no doubt that the importation of Japanese cars was the turning point for the improvement in the quality of American cars. Which were horrible. (The Japanese learned the art and advantage of quality perfection from the statistician Edwards Deming and other Americans who were sent to Japan after WW2 to get them back on track. They listened and learned while American industry ignored Deming and his cohorts)

What has happened as a result of the flow of cheap goods from China and other countries is that, while non essential goods (electronics and the like) has gotten more affordable, the essentials (food, rents, etc), which cannot be outsourced, have, with the resulting loss in middle income jobs, become relatively expensive and are consuming as high a percentage of our incomes as they ever did (I suspect a much higher percentage but I don’t know the exact numbers). So where is the net gain from the flow of cheap goods? It is enabling Wal-mart and the likes to put Main Street USA out of business, export profits from local communities, lower wages and, you guessed it, put even Windstone on the verge of extinction. And it is burning up the worlds resources of materials and energy at an even faster rate. Global warming? That too.

I’m getting hungry and this seems like a good enough place to quit. Wow, what a thread! Damn smartass homeschoolers!

[Bob]

PLEASE do not talk about Windstone and extinction in the same sentence. That can NEVER happen!!!

[Chessapeaka]

John wrote:

Chessapeaka wrote:

(My parents are cool, but they suffer from “our children are angels” disease… which they usually will acknowledge, but.. eh… I don’t like having my ego stroked when its not deserved. It’s always made me squeamish.)

Hey, since they were born, we have tried our best to bring out the worst in our children. If we have failed it’s because they just don’t get it. Probably should have sent them to public school.

Touche!*

*Unfortunately I’m too stupid to understand what you meant by that, so I’ll call it even and go away now.

[Melody]

Chessapeaka wrote:

John wrote:

Chessapeaka wrote:

(My parents are cool, but they suffer from “our children are angels” disease… which they usually will acknowledge, but.. eh… I don’t like having my ego stroked when its not deserved. It’s always made me squeamish.)

Hey, since they were born, we have tried our best to bring out the worst in our children. If we have failed it’s because they just don’t get it. Probably should have sent them to public school.
All I can say to you, Chess – is, yes, home schooling sucks. You have no help anymore from me, because you have advanced beyond what I have managed to learn in public schools…which, by the way, was only what I ferreted out for myself. I genuinely wanted to learn certain things,so I learned them myself. Homeschooling happens in Public school too.

Touche!*

*Unfortunately I’m too stupid to understand what you meant by that, so I’ll call it even and go away now.

[Maria]

I am way behind! But these last posts are great. Even funny. Ski, the way you bring humor in everywhere is great. And I love your new signature. 😆 Thanks for the input, John – I agree in full.
There are only a few points left that I want to disagree with. The example with Japan, Mimi: They’ve adopted Western values, yes – and have gone psychotic. Look at how their young folk run around, in crazy colors, constantly wired to the latest, best gadget that isn’t even available elsewhere in the world. Look at the unbelievable rate of suicide. Those people are under a lot of stress, breaking with their old culture and trying to fit the Western system. The Western values they adopted in order to fit in the business world are in direct conflict with the natural emphasis of their Shinto culture, and it shows in the people. Now discussing cultures and their effects is very difficult because a lot of effects aren’t readily visible, but I think too often people forget that cultures are the spice of life, and trying to mash different ones up and assimilate everything into blue jeans and coke isn’t good for anybody. People are unequal, different, there are rich and poor, there are Christian values and there are Hindu values, fundamentally different, ingrained in the respective societies, and that trying to fit them around each other makes problems. There are exceptions, like your black friend and his Japanese wife – but exception confirm the rule. My mom is American, Dad is Swiss – they’ve been happily married for nearly 20 years but there is no question that inter-cultural marriages take even more work and sacrifice to maintain than normal ones. Culture makes a huge difference – even cultures so comparatively similar as American and Swiss.
But on the rest of it – except for the death penalty; there I totally agree with Ski – we agree that the system is rotten, and past reform without drastic measures.
And here we get to Vive le resistance! Yes! But seeing Ski post that brought up an interesting thought. The American settlers threw off England over a matter of less than 10% tax, saying it was illegal, much too much. (I forget the exact amount.) We sit here, paying 50% taxes, watching while a president runs rampant against the will of Congress and the people in a futile endeavor , runs up a debt that can never be paid, lets in hundreds of thousands of undesirable illegals every year. We watch the system bankrupt itself. Most people know there’s a problem. Most people – that I’d run into; I could be wrong – know we desperately need a big change. And yet nothing happens. I firmly believe that the American revolt against Brit tyranny was justified. I think something like the Spirit of 1776 is way overdue here. But what can we do?
I’m irritated because Christians like to push off any radical action against the government with the “Be subject unto those those above you” passage. But personally I believe that we have even more reason to throw off this government before it ruins us than the men of 1776 had to throw off the Brits.
All we need is a George Washington. And therein lies the problem.

[Author]

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