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A few things.
1. The google search method is nice, and it works better than our built in search. However, I’d guess 80% or more of the users will never discover it (heck, I forgot about it and I used to use the forum for hours daily!!) as search functions in every other forum that I’ve ever used preform properly, and so when you look at our header and see ‘search’ there is an expectation that it will preform properly. Few users will seek the FAQs to realize that our built in search isn’t necessarily the one they ‘should’ be using. Our search is complicated and even with proper use is very hard to find what you are looking for.
2. I agree: Never delete old stuff. Archive, or render it ‘read only’ but don’t delete.
3. I don’t have any idea how to implement any of the above suggestions or convert any of the old threads to read-only without spending time and editing each and every one since the forum started. If there is a way– and there might be– it’s not within my arsenal of forum modding powers.
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My art: featherdust.comJennifer:
A little while back we did add this to the search page:
“Click here for tips on searching the store or the forum.”And that redirects to the search help section of the FAQ page. Perhaps it should be made more visible somehow, but hopefully some users have seen it.
Also, someone mentioned that they never look at old sale threads with new replies because it is often just a random comment from a random user. For those who have sale threads here, if you update your thread it would be a good idea to add something to the thread title, if possible. For ex “updated 12/5”, or “updated 12/5 pg 3”. That way other members can see at a glance if there have been any actual updates made.
RE: Search
You should be able to, if you wanted, to replace your search functionality whole-sale with the Google search widget. It would index the site and then search using the Google algorithms. I believe it is also free and pretty easy to implement.
As far as I can see this whole discussion points to making the sales thread into a post by seller only board and I think that the ability to add items to the sellers item listing should not be allowed. Each item or collection of items for sale should be listed with maybe four pictures max just like Craig’s List and any discussions can be started elsewhere. I see no need for a seller to have their own dedicated thread. You have more stuff for sale, you create a new listing.
Craig’s List works just fine for buying and selling things and the Flea Market listings would be a whole lot more useful without the inane comments and wandering discussions. Wasn’t the idea to have a place to buy and sell? Why not make it easy. If the seller wants to rely on PMs for response that’s fine, and if they want to make sure that the buyer will get through to them they can include their email in the listing, just like Craig’s List. Nobody needs to post “PM’d you”.
Because, as it was pointed out, there are really not that many new listings I would think that “Items For Sale” should be a single thread. You can create all the discussion threads you want but what is for sale, and what is “Wanted To Buy”, should be single threads with everything wanted or for sale in one spot. I would never take the time to wade through Craig’s List if it looked like a forum with discussion mixed with sales.
So, am I missing something here? Or is the awful tangle of threads and comments somehow attractive to users and we should leave it alone?
I can navigate this sales thread, but I don’t do craig’s list because I can’t figure out how it works. It’s just a list and if I can’t remember exactly what I saw I can never find it again. Here I can usually remember who has what and I can search for that person.
Sometimes the pm feature doesn’t work, so you need to mentioned that you pm’d someone so they know to look for it or contact you if the pm didn’t go through. I like the side conversations because sometimes multiple people can get a piece they want because a collector who wasn’t planning on selling discovers there’s a market for a certain piece.
We are adults…I’m not sure why we can’t regulate ourselves with occasional reminders for those who forget or newer members who didn’t realize they were doing something wrong.
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Sun Dragon Koi #3John if each item had its own post then i could take up the entire front page all by myself. Some of us dont sell one item at a time and it would be far too much of a clusterf*** for us to split threads like that. I think craigslist is a chaotic cesspool and the marketplace shouldnt be modeled off it.
My opinion is this, if we cut out the ‘good lucks’ and “i wish i had money for this’ kind of babble then most of the problem would be solved. But thats a matter of someone self governing themselves on what they post and it shouldnt be a mod issue.
A thought though: flea market subforums: dragons, hoofers, griffins, cats and misc.
John if each item had its own post then i could take up the entire front page all by myself. Some of us dont sell one item at a time and it would be far too much of a clusterf*** for us to split threads like that. I think craigslist is a chaotic cesspool and the marketplace shouldnt be modeled off it.
This!
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Creating a separate subforum for each type of item might be helpful, but it could also get very messy because ALL those places would need supervision. It is sometimes hard enough getting new members to post their sales threads in the flea market section instead of one of the many other forum sections (or getting people to post their non-windstone items in the non-winstone flea market section).
The only reason I would support allowing member replies to threads in the fea market section is because new members dont always realize there are PMs here. Either they don’t know it exists or they don’t know how to use it. If they could only get PMs they might never realize that anyone was interested in what they are selling. I think the flea market would be fine if people just abide by the existing rules, and if there was a way to weed out old, inactive threads.
I don’t like Craigslist. I think the ability to add pieces, edit, change prices, etc. is the best part of the sale forum. Plus, I really don’t want to track down multiple sale threads by a single user to try to make a deal on multiple pieces. I like all their info on one thread.
I think one of the problems is that there are members who don’t change the title of threads to say “Updated 12/6” or “Kirin Added”. Also, not REMOVING sold items/pics or marking them as SOLD causes problems. I check the first couple of posts in a thread for pics, prices, etc. If the pics fall in the middle of the thread, then I don’t bother because I don’t know what’s current and what’s not. This is, of course, the responsibility of the member who posted the thread, and it’s their loss if their thread is confusing. Again, this is self-regulation.
(Speaking of which, this is the reason I gave up looking through the GB threads because it was hard to know what was still available and what had been sold, but that’s just the nature of the beast when it comes to GBs… LOL)
I also like discussions on the sale threads, because sometimes you get more information about the pieces this way. Bumping to say you sold something could probably be eliminated. Just remove the pic of the sold item or mark it as sold. I see no need to bump a thread for something that is no longer there.
I also have no problem clicking to the second page (or even third or forth page) of the sale forum to find threads. And indeed, I have purchased items on threads that were all the way on the third page. Clicking isn’t hard! LOL! 😛
Just my point of view. 🙂
I’d just be happy with 2 things… being able to edit my post consistantly (meaning all the time and not when the forum FEELS like letting me edit or not edit a post) and also, ( a little off topic, but) I am still irking to fix my PYO Gallery and organize it like we used to be able to.
I think in the Flea Market areas, it would be nice to have the ability to lock down your own thread if you are the author. I suppose just editing it and changing the title as so people know it’s no longer an active sales thread would work just as well though.
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Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry DragonsI am talking about a list of Title headings, maybe with a thumbnail, for each item that will open to pictures of a regular size. The sales and wanted areas should be as easy to use as any other classified, no?
If people are serious about selling things they can put their email or phone number in the listing, just like any other classified ad section. Or rely on the PMs, which, if they are not working right, we need to look at.
I am still not clear on what the problem with a Craig’s List type format for sales would be. There just are not that many new items offered for sale so I can’t see how it would be hard to find things. The clutter we have now is all the chatter, the posting of oversize and too many pictures, and old bumped threads. I would think you would want a format where none of that can exist. I use Craig’s List all the time to buy things as well as to post to and it is way more efficient than the forum postings.
I’d just be happy with 2 things… being able to edit my post consistantly (meaning all the time and not when the forum FEELS like letting me edit or not edit a post) and also, (a little off topic, but) I am still irking to fix my PYO Gallery and organize it like we used to be able to.
The PYO gallery issues are still very much on the long list of “New Forum” stuff to change. We have been straightening out many other things related to order processing and behind-the-scenes problems. We have a new part-timer who will be getting around to the entire list as soon as he is able.
I am talking about a list of Title headings, maybe with a thumbnail, for each item that will open to pictures of a regular size. The sales and wanted areas should be as easy to use as any other classified, no?
If people are serious about selling things they can put their email or phone number in the listing, just like any other classified ad section. Or rely on the PMs, which, if they are not working right, we need to look at.
I am still not clear on what the problem with a Craig’s List type format for sales would be. There just are not that many new items offered for sale so I can’t see how it would be hard to find things. The clutter we have now is all the chatter, the posting of oversize and too many pictures, and old bumped threads. I would think you would want a format where none of that can exist. I use Craig’s List all the time to buy things as well as to post to and it is way more efficient than the forum postings.
Is this a male info organization preference vs female info organization preference? I think the existing “clutter” and side-issues is fine, but I’m female – as most of the forum seems to be.
P.S. I believe Jennifer discouraged people from including email addresses or phone numbers in their listings for privacy/security reasons. You might see what the forum-users sentiment is about this.
Oh boy. I’m almost sorry I started this discussion, but really, The flea market has to be organized somehow, because as it is, it not real easy to use. And I do know how to use search function, but the problem arises with all the multiple threads for the same person with many of the same items, or old threads where something was for sale, and is now long sold. Makes it very hard if not impossible to find items you are looking for.
I understand both the way John is saying, and the way others are saying. I am on a huge doll forum with an even bigger marketplace (I’m talking something like 10,000 active members!) And we’ve tried both ways. And both ways work! But the biggest thing we’ve learned over many years is that the people who make the threads have a responsibility to take care of their threads!
1.)If it is sold, mark it SOLD! If the transaction is complete, item at a new home, “graveyard” the thread (where it is put in a seperate archive that can be accessed if needed, but no longer clutters up the marketplace.)
2.)There really shouldn’t be any conversations on sales threads, only bumps, status changes, or additional information if needed. Conversations on sales threads are only confusing. And if you’re looking for something you want to buy, post it in your WTB thread. If someone has one for sale, they can either contact you as a result of you WYB thread, or put the item up FS and you can contact them. We’ve already got tons of places in the forum for conversations!
3.) Everyone only needs 2 threads: one FS and one WTB.
4.) Subforums are great, i.e. hoofers, dragons, etc, but ONLY if it won’t cause a bigger hassle for the forum admins and mods.Finally, and as a side note I’ve heard that a lot of people say they have had problems with pm’s. I never have on Windstone, either the new forum, or the old one. And alerts always come to my email inbox letting me know I have a pm, so I don’t miss them either. Not sure why so many others have problems.
I have, however, had problems with editing certain posts, so I know where that’s a frustration, but was also able to pm a mod, and get the post/or thread fixed, etc.
Also note, I’m female, and I can’t stand the clutter! There has to be a way we can all agree on to fix this! It took me over an hour one day searching through old threads for an item, only to find that the 2 pages of search results, all the items were either long sold, or double or triple posts!
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I have always…and will continue to avoid salesplaces that encourage you to post your email or phone number publicly. I dont like traditional classified ads for this reason. It’s too darn easy for spammers and telemarketers to find me now as it is!
Craigslist actually has an email rerouting system so emails arent posted publicly…but phone numbers are. I’ve still never actually purchased anything via craigslist, but I browse there on occasion if I have a specific thing I’m looking for.
The forum is fine as is really, the existing rules just need to be followed. Azurielle makes some very fine points though.
Well, I think part of John’s point is that if we improve the default functionality of the sales forum, then self policing is less of an issue. Overall, I think we have a pretty good group, but without an active forum moderator, self policing will only take you so far. There has to be someone who can, if needed, enforce the rules if they’re in place.
However, if the system enforces them for you, there’s less human intervention needed.
I don’t know the solution for this – honestly I think it’s pretty cool that Windstone supports a sales forum at all since they don’t get any portion of the revenue from it (and one might argue that it takes revenue from them since you sometimes see production pieces up for sale for less than store price).
Perhaps now that we have a nifty polling feature, we should assemble the list of options and use some crowd sourcing to see which is the most popular and go with that.
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