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Today was a huge art making day for me which means lots of deep thinking and questioning stuff. I went to art school and studied both fine art and commercial art and was thinking about how fantasy art fits into the Art World (I capitalize Art here because I am referring to the high-brow stuff here). I have seen very, very few, if any, fantasy type artwork in any sort of Art gallery and much less a museum. I sure spent my fair share of time drudging through L.A.’s high end galleries and museums while in school… seeing artwork worth millions upon millions of dollars. Nothing was ever of a “fantasy” theme. Why do you think that is? Is fantasy too “commercial”? It seems that all the greatest fantasy artists end up getting their stuff licensed on stuff and a handful of artbooks or covers. Fine art seems to be more concept oriented.. but could fantasy art hold more concept that its given credit for?
I feel like I’m writing a school paper or something.. haha.. but its been something I’ve been thinking of today and was curious what other artists and fantasy enthusiasts thought. I probably should have done some research on some artists before posting this but I didn’t want to delve that deep into it yet… Do you know of any artists that fit the bill? Fantasy AND Fine Art?
All the artists I like are classified as “Low Brow”. I can name a successful low brow artist or two that have been taken seriously in the art world. I love their art, but can barely afford a small print let alone an original. Most of the artists hanging on my walls (in my opinion) haven’t gotten the recognition they deserve, but I’m no art expert, I just know what I like 🙂
Mark Ryden is featured in galleries and has been taken seriously for his SUPER CREEPY realism (if that can be classified as fantasy)
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I don’t think that the two are mutually exclusive. The AGO (Art Gallery of Ontario) had a wonderful exhibit a couple of years back of fantasy art, mostly fairies and the fae. Some of the more famous ones were by John Atkinson Grimshaw (his most famous would be The Spirit of the Night, though he did also paint Arthurian Art like the Accolade and The Lady of Shallot), Richard Dadd, Joseph Noel Paton… the list goes on. And those paintings are worth millions, but how much were they worth while those artists were still alive?
I think people have always been fascinated by “creatures of myth” and always will. How many living artists in general (not just in the fantasy genre) now could sell a single painting or sculpture for more than a million dollars? Very, very, very few. When looking at famous fantasy artists in our era, like Michael Whelan, Brom, Charles Vess, Dean Morrissey (his original art pieces have been steadily appreciating in value) their original pieces will sell for thousands now but who knows what they will go for in 100-150 years from now?
James C. Christensen – made his name in Cali before moving to Utah to teach at Brigham Young University. I have several of his prints and cannot afford his originals (though I really, really would love to!) We’ve seen lots of his work in galleries in Utah, Idaho and Washington. We’ve also met him several times and he personally signed individual prints for me boyohs – very kind of him! Scott Gustafson is another fantasy artist that does fabulous work (we met him too) We’ve got a few of his pieces as well… A newer artist that trained under James Christensen is Halla Witwer. Her painting titled “A Work of Ark” is hysterical! I love her stuff as well… When I was at Uni in London I attended a stellar exhibit of fantasy works at the Victoria and Albert Museum. There was also an affiliated exhibit at the Museum of London as well as an exhibit in the Mews Gallery at Buckingham Palace that showcased the Royal Family’s private collection that included works of Faberge… There’s lots out there – maybe we’re just behind here in the States? Compared to the rest of the world we’re awfully young still and our artists (and public) haven’t had as much evolutionary time to develop our own mythology and Art to grace it… Just a thought 😳
twindragonsmum :snappy: 😀
tdm
some good examples. art is definitely subjective and there are certainly supporters of fantasy here 😀 i guess i have been reflecting a lot on my formal education and feel that i was so brainwashed with modern/contemporary art. would these artists be featured in art history books 100 years from now? are they making that much of an impact on society? are they changing or challenging the way people think?
i like the Hieronymus Bosch mention. forgot about him and his work… i think that could be considered fantasy. but it was very shocking and challenging to people in his time which kept him in the books. if he were alive today and produced that work, it would just mesh in along with every other “shocking” art that the mainstream produces. it wouldn’t have much impact. no?
on a personal level… now that i have “allowed” myself to draw/paint/sculpt fantasy art, i am a bit embarrassed to show any of my current work to the folks i studied under and with at my university. which is really too bad. ahhhh… i think i’m rambling and not feeling good today and apparently needed to talk about nonsense 😳 please forgive me! 😈
Jasmine wrote:When looking at famous fantasy artists in our era, like Michael Whelan, Brom, Charles Vess, Dean Morrissey (his original art pieces have been steadily appreciating in value) their original pieces will sell for thousands now but who knows what they will go for in 100-150 years from now?
Great point!
twindragonsmum wrote:Compared to the rest of the world we’re awfully young still and our artists (and public) haven’t had as much evolutionary time to develop our own mythology and Art to grace it… Just a thought 😳
That’s a great point! It’s almost like our society missed out on a lot of that… and its too wrapped up in the here and now to focus on mythology and fantasy of the past.
Generally Fantasy art is not widely accepted as a fine art form… as someone else mentioned, it is ‘low brow’. Many that deal in fine art galleries and museums do not even consider it art (and I don’t want to get into a debate over what is and is not ‘art’… just stating what I have observed and been told!!).
There are a lot of art forms that are not considered ‘art’ by high end collectors, galleries, and museums. This is a long, slow trend to change. For example Wildlife art is still not accepted many places and has only recently been considered a type of fine art by many galleries and museums (though it still will never sell as well as landscapes, and non-wildlife Western Art).
(I get Western Art collector magazine and a lot of western art and landscapes sell in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per painting range)
Fantasy as a genre is many steps below that even. There have been, wonderfully, a few galleries to accept that type of art in recent times, but in general it is looked down upon.
I have received nothing but horrified looks, and rejections (some polite, some not) when applying to galleries with my fantasy art. It’s one reason I have switched gears to wildlife, but even then it’s hard. Not much luck yet.Given time this undoubtedly will change as all trends in art do!
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My art: featherdust.comJennifer wrote:Generally Fantasy art is not widely accepted as a fine art form… as someone else mentioned, it is ‘low brow’. Many that deal in fine art galleries and museums do not even consider it art (and I don’t want to get into a debate over what is and is not ‘art’… just stating what I have observed and been told!!).
There are a lot of art forms that are not considered ‘art’ by high end collectors, galleries, and museums. This is a long, slow trend to change. For example Wildlife art is still not accepted many places and has only recently been considered a type of fine art by many galleries and museums (though it still will never sell as well as landscapes, and non-wildlife Western Art).
(I get Western Art collector magazine and a lot of western art and landscapes sell in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per painting range)
Fantasy as a genre is many steps below that even. There have been, wonderfully, a few galleries to accept that type of art in recent times, but in general it is looked down upon.
I have received nothing but horrified looks, and rejections (some polite, some not) when applying to galleries with my fantasy art. It’s one reason I have switched gears to wildlife, but even then it’s hard. Not much luck yet.Given time this undoubtedly will change as all trends in art do!
Jen, you definitely see where I am coming from here! And thank you for taking the time to comment. I know a lot of fans of the genre will dispute it but coming from different backgrounds of art, I can see how its not accepted. I just think that it is incredibly “curious” that art folks will consider something (say a Jackson Pollock, comes to mind) is a great piece of fine art yet something that requires great skill and technique (say a Michael Whelan or any other fantasy great) is nothing worth looking twice at. Gahhh… Now I see your reasoning for switching to wildlife art. I was always curious about that.
I guess this just means that the focus for fantasy artists is more on the commercial side. I just thought I’d bring it up as something interesting to talk about… didn’t want to ruffle any feathers!
daydreamer wrote:Now I see your reasoning for switching to wildlife art. I was always curious about that.
Well, this was not my only reason. I’ve always loved animals and have been drawing them as long as I’ve been drawing dragons (since I was 3 or 4!) and even at an early age I swooned over the artwork of Robert Bateman and Guy Coealeach. But yes, it was depressing to never get taken seriously. Not that ‘getting taken seriously’ is a huge goal or even a waypoint I dream about…! But I guess to earn a living it is a key step. 😉 In an ideal world I wouldn’t need money, and I’d paint whatever the heck I pleased and would give the paintings away.
Still, I aim to paint what I love and this was one of those ways of doing it. It’ll take a long time to get established though, if I ever do.Quote:I guess this just means that the focus for fantasy artists is more on the commercial side. I just thought I’d bring it up as something interesting to talk about… didn’t want to ruffle any feathers!
Yyyess… in general. Of course there are fantasy artists that can paint or create what they want and live off of it. Melody is a great example of this balanced compromise between working on what you love and making a living on it and catering to the market (e.g. making sculptures that she had a reasonable feeling will be popular. Vs. making crazy stuff that she might really like to make but won’t sell well as a whole). However this is more of an exception rather than the rule– at least, right now as I speak. This too fluctuates. There are a few ‘key players’ but even they are doing work mostly via contract or commission; how often does Lockwood or Whelan paint something just to sell the original painting (as most ‘fine artists’ do)? Most of their work is for a client, and while their original work does sell for a living wage, they are the minority. I suspect most fantasy artists make the brunt of their money (those that make a true living JUST on fantasy art) off of the commercial aspect. Commissioned work, merchandise (prints, book covers, t-shirts, posters, figurines, etc etc).
Whereas artists whose work is accepted as ‘fine art’ and are shown in esteemed galleries and shows tend to be the opposite. Most of their earnings come from selling originals, and not from merchandise and such.
At least, this has been my observation, with one foot in both worlds. Melody would have perhaps even more insight as she knows many artists in both of these areas!Not to paint a grim picture of fantasy art as a career. But it’s hard and while ALL artists get mocked by their peers at some point or another, fantasy and sci-fi artists get picked on and looked down upon quite a bit sometimes.
Does this matter? There are a lot of thoughts that an artist should listen only to their inner muse and heart and to hell with everyone else’s opinions! And to an extent this is useful. It is important not to get too bogged down in the specifics and not to let the all mighty dollar guide your work entirely. I don’t know about anyone else though, but my muse doesn’t know how to pay my bills! XD
There is a lot of tricky balance involved, between following your passion, and your need to eat and buy more art supplies…!! You can be successful without doing the first, but it shows in your work if you can manage them both. Art created with passion generally shows..!Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comWow. This is like pondering ‘the meaning of life’ and other “I-would-try-to-think-about-this-stuff-more-often, but-my-brain-hurts” topics. :scratch:
Its also sad. There are a lot of artists and pieces of fantasy art I admire, and yet they don’t get the credit they deserve. Like some people on here… *cough* 😉 But hopefully that will change with my generation or in the very near future. It’s like the whole debate with video games as an ‘art form’…
daydreamer wrote:twindragonsmum wrote:Compared to the rest of the world we’re awfully young still and our artists (and public) haven’t had as much evolutionary time to develop our own mythology and Art to grace it… Just a thought 😳
That’s a great point! It’s almost like our society missed out on a lot of that… and its too wrapped up in the here and now to focus on mythology and fantasy of the past.
I would suggest that the West is the American mythology (or fantasy), especially the Noble Indian and heroic cowboy, and that this accounts for the popularity of Western art. Fantasy as exemplified by dragons, faeries, unicorns, etc. is an European/Asian artifact. Just out of curiosity, what happens if someone marries fantasy with the West by painting Sasquatch, a dragon as “Spirit of the Badlands”, unicorns among the redwoods, or something like that?
I guess this is what results of no education in the arts and really not caring what people think. SO much of that ‘modern’ stuff is total dreck to me… A two year old could paint better. I’ve seen things done by elephants and horses and dogs that were better. A plain white canvas with a red square in the corner hanging in the museum and worth megabucks… insane. Though I don’t follow art and couldn’t name artists, I admire fantasy art- you’ve got to have some real imagination and vision to even conceptualize that stuff, let alone paint it. I do like a more or less ‘photographic’ style, and I’ve seen many that capture that well. Does some of that ‘ocean’ work that has whales and sunsets and stuff qualify as fantasy? Most of it is overblown for me, but it can be beautiful.
Huh, surprised wildlife is lowbrow. Guess I’m thinking of Audobon, he seems to be held in esteem. (not really done as paintings to hang on the wall and he’s dead, but…) What about animals in general? Or are the only animals allowed English foxhunting scenes? Does it have to be visual gibberish to be ‘good’?
I wonder if Etruscan doesn’t have a point- the fey really isn’t home grown for Americans. Also that we seem to want everything concrete and measurable- look at the stigma of mental illness versus physical. Hard to say if that dragon is proper, if there aren’t dragons. So you call it juvenile and toss it aside, makes you uncomfortable.
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