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Awww Wolfen, I am so sorry. I hope that everything works out. I don’t really have any great advice regarding the kids because he is so young… the brain isn’t even done developing until sometimes as late as 23, so he may still be going thru some changes. I truly hope you two work this out.
I might be able to help with the depression thing… I am currently being seen for depression (i’m 34). I’ve been dealing with it for a while, but only recently felt like I couldn’t handle it myself anymore. I feel embarrassed and weak, and to top it all off, every time I talk to the counselor, I start crying and have no idea why. I am also on pills. What he told me is that this is only temporary. You are obviously not a perpetually sad person and sometimes it may just take some help… a combo of pills and counseling… to get thru it. My counselor does have a lot of advice and has a good way of seeing things that seems to be helping. I’ve only been seeing him a couple times, but that, along with the meds, and I already feel better. I think a couple more months and I will be back to my old self. I hope that you do not feel bad or embarrassed by needing help. LOTS of people need help, which is why counselors stay in business 😉 I know it may feel embarrassing or you feel weak, or, like in my case, feel like you should be stronger than that, given all you have been thru, but just know that it is temporary. You are depressed… NOT a depressed person, and there is a difference. Don’t take on the depressed person persona and let your meds/counseling help. I really hope you feel better soon and I hope you and your man work this out.
Wolfen, I hear you girl! I had to deal with (and am still dealing with) this issue. You are not cold for not wanting kids. I don’t want them either (and I’m a teacher too!), and I especially can’t deal with them when they’re little. I can’t stand the tantrums, the messiness, the noise etc. Give me a cat anyday! I have no maternal feelings what so ever, and I am now 28. It is ok not to like them. Quite frankly, our society is too kid-centric. We need some balance.
Here is my story – I hope it helps to shed some light for you!
Last year my hubby was acting weird and withdrawn, and I kept asking him what was wrong and he wouldn’t open up. Then he asked out of the blue “do you want kids?” I said no, ’cause I don’t. Well, he went a bit cold after that. I caught him one day crying his eyes out saying that we’d have to split because he really wants kids and didn’t want to make me do something I didn’t want to do. I was instantly in tears as the bottom fell out of my world. I love him more than anything in this world, and I can’t look after myself anyway due to having Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, so I was looking at being on the streets if I wasn’t with him. I broke down and begged him not to leave me, I will have kids, just don’t leave me! I have never sobbed like that in my life!
Anyway, we went to marriage councelling and I told him all about the non choice he’d given me. People were saying to me “don’t have kids if you don’t want to”, but if the choice is to have kids or loose the love of my life and my home, what choice are you gonna make? It’s a no brainer. I will do anything to keep my husband. I set out some conditions though; he is not getting everything his way. He must give up the cigarettes (which he is doing), I must have help with the housework and childcare as I am exhausted now, let alone with a child, and I will continue with my music. I didn’t spend years and money honing my craft to give it all up. I am also concerned about what will happen with my body. I am overweight by about 25-30 kilos, because my body fights me when I try to exercise (and I can’t do much due to the CFS), I have inverted hip joints, and is pregnancy going to make my CFS worse? I told him that it is easy for you to want kids, but it changes my life so much more then his, as I will be doing the bulk of the parenting (we need his job!). I need his support and more importantly, I need his love. I don’t want him to forget me once I pop out the kid/s. I am very scared of that.
So, I have done the compromising. You have to make a decision, as hard as it is because you either do have them or you don’t. Now that we are going to have kids (I still don’t like the idea one bit, but I don’t have a choice) I am finding I have to do a lot more like finding a bigger house and looking at finances to make sure that if something happens to either of us, the other and kids will be taken care of. I am also psyching myself up to this unwanted task.
My hubby will make a fantastic father and I know that I can count on him. He is aware that I haven’t changed my feelings, but I can’t make myself get maternal feelings can I? All I can do is hope I like the sprogs when they get here.Now, back to you. You say Josh is changable about having kids. He hasn’t made up his mind yet, and you have to be very careful. You don’t want to have them to find that he has changed his mind and now doesn’t want them as you can be guaranteed that you will be left holding the baby, literally. I would want a commitment (if it was me) that he is gonna stick around – like making you his wife perhaps. You two need to go to councelling and get EVERYTHING out in the open; your thoughts, fears, hopes. He must examine why he wants them and also be aware of what he is asking you to do. It can’t just be about what he wants as you are going to be putting in a great deal more effort and risk then he is initially. You both have to be VERY sure that this is the right thing to do. Your relationship must be stong and you must not be afraid to communicate. Communication is king. Also show love and appreciate each other all the time. These are the things that make the relationship survive kids as they place great strain on it.
I know you are terrified. I was too (and still am). But please don’t let it get to you. Talk about it and clear it up asap. Think about it as a challenge to overcome. I thought long and hard about it. Having kids isn’t the end of the world; you just need to make sure you keep yourself true. I have had depression too (the CFS will do that to you I guess) and have been on Zoloft as well. I know the numb feeling. Check your vitamin D levels though. I was extremely low (even though I live in a sunny climate, as do you) and as soon as I started taking suppliments and my levels rose, I wasn’t nearly as bad. It might help you, you never know!
As for being scared of the birth process, please be aware (I’m sure you are consciously) that it is a dramatisation, and you were 4, so didn’t understand what was going on. You can always have the numbing drugs! That’s what I’m going to do! I don’t care about trying to do it a la natural – just give me the drugs!!! 😀 Seriously, examine this in councelling too. If you can overcome or come to terms with, your fear, you have come a long way.
Wolfen, you are completely normal, and you are not a cold person at all. If you were you wouldn’t give a stuff. I hope I have helped you with this (extremely long) post, as I have bared myself and my issues to you in the hope it will clear things up a bit. I have confidence in you, and you should have some in yourself. You are a wonderful person, and your dislike of kids does not reduce your quality in any way! Be easier on yourself my friend! 🙂
(oh, btw, I’m convinced my hubby wants kids because he wants minions to do his bidding! 😀 )
Not much to add advice-wise, just wanted to give you a big e-hug.
I’ve never wanted kids either. Have a son who will be 16 this October, and he was adopted by a wonderful family as a baby. And believe me, I’ve gotten nothing but grief from my family over the decision. I did the best I could – I could barely take care of myself at the time, much less myself and the child. Personally, I thought it was very UN-selfish of me to place him where he could grow up without the crap I grew up with.
Sorry, I just don’t have the mommy instinct. Everyone told me how it would kick in eventually and especially once I held him for the first time, but it just didn’t happen. I guess I could have been like my mom, sacrificed everything for my kids all my life then one day when they hit their 30’s just look them straight in the face and tell them they ruined my life and they are regretted. *shrug*
A few years ago I started my battle with cancer. Now the children issue is decided for me, had a hysterectomy last January at the age of 36. No kids ever, and it’s a liberating feeling. It’s been fun spending our money on nice vacations to exotic places, rather than diapers and college funds. Call me selfish, I like life this way!
It’s been fun spending our money on nice vacations to exotic places, rather than diapers and college funds. Call me selfish, I like life this way!
I like the way you think. I would rather grow old with my S.O. and travel places and do things together than have the anchor of a kid tethering you to monotony in the home.
I wish you the best of luck and days filled with rainbow ponies.
LOL DDVM, I love you!
Thank you for all the awesome and kind words. It has helped me a great deal knowing I’m not alone.
Hannah-I kept thinking about your story all afternoon yesterday. That was super sweet of your brother. I think that he did something just to make her happy is a great sign he puts her wishes above his own and truly loves and cares for her. I don’t know her, but I’m sure shes the type of woman to see what he’s doing for her and in turn, be willing to make sacrifices for him through the years. “Well, I dont like baseball, but he loves it, so I’ll go with him. Maybe I’ll learn to like it”<–that kind of thing. I believe a relationship is give and take, and in the end, doing something you dont like can result in actually liking it. Like my awesome 4th grade teacher, Mrs.Zuluski said all the time, "Fake it till you feel it!"
Bodine-I am on the same page! Lots of my friends are having babies-and I think you're TOTALLY right. I feel that lots of people are pressured into it-they're told all their life that's what they "need" to do, and they do it and dont think about it.
A friend of Josh's, we'll call him…."Henry". Well Henry is with this girl "Amanda". Amanda wants a baby more than anything in the world. They're not married, but he wants to make her happy, so they try and try. She finally gets one. This girl is TINY. I'm 5'4 150lbs and shes easily half my size-maybe 5'4 110 or something. (I know thats not half but you get the idea :P)Well the baby was born a month or two early-her water broke, and so she had to stay in the hospital and be proped up so the baby wasn't actually BORN until a bit later. Then when the baby WAS born, he had to have some HUGE major surgery-brain or heart surgery. He lived through it, and hes fine now, but Josh told me (I dont know how true this is) that all that time in the hospital-weeks-and surgery on a tiny baby etc. cost the couple over one million dollars O.O Neither of them were financially ready for children, but Henry worked two jobs and worked hard to make ends meet. Then Amanda got overwhelmed and didn't want to be a mother anymore and she walked out on her family. She was homeless for a while because her family disowned her for walking out.
Later, she realizes shes truly SOL and comes crawling back to Henry-and he TAKES HER BACK that fool. Now shes pregnant again. REALLY?! It makes me so upset that they've done all this when they were neither emotionally nor financially ready. If you want something cute and cuddly that you can set down and walk away from, get a puppy. They're high maintenance but self sufficent. I think she only saw what was cute about babies and not what was hard.I'll admit when I officially decided I didnt want children, it was hard to think I wouldn't have anyone to pass my toys down to, or will my Windstones to when I get old (yes, I will put them in a will!) but after thinking about it long and hard, I realized that both of my cousins (who are like sisters to me) are planning on having kids, so I can give my stuff to their kids and it will still stay in the family-or sell my stuff when I get old enough that I feel that the end is near. And, maybe when I get to be like…40, I'll have the time and money to put into an adoption. I was adopted! I was a tiny baby-my mom now was the first person to hold me. My biological mother's name is Dawn and she was 17 at the time. So she made a responsible decision. My mom now is more like a dear friend than "mom". I like it that way. I'd like to have a "friend" relationship with a kid one day-maybe.
I will say, there is one kid I really really like a lot. She belongs to my friend Jeremy and her name is Temperence-aka Tempe. For those of you who have read the Twilight series, she is JUST LIKE Renesme! Shes quiet, inquisitive, doesn't cry or scream, easy going, always ALWAYS happy. One day she was having a really bad day, she was just mad at the world-and she was crying and screaming. Jeremy played some Alice in Chains and she quieted down and went to sleep. AWESOME! Shes a little rocker chick already! Blonde hair, blue eyed, SHE is precious. But shes also not mine, so I only get to see her once in a while-not deal with her every day.
Tethra-have you and your husband considered a surrogate or adopting? It sounds like having a baby yourself will be very hard on you physically-I hope your husband understands that. I have mild scoliosis-a curvature of the spine-I blame it on carrying 50 lbs of books in elementry school (okay they weren't that heavy but some nights we'd have homework in math, history and science and those books were at least 8-10lbs each) but either way, I know it would mess up my back even more. Just standing for a couple of hours, walking around the mall or something, I just want to curl in a ball and curve my back to make it feel better. I know women with normal spines complain about their back-it would be aweful on me I imagine.
Its probably not my place to say this, but you shouldn't have to bear the brunt of your husband's decision. Having a child that you don't want or don't want with all of your being will mentally affect the child. If you listen to rock songs, or people around you, many people (at least in my age group) blame at least SOMETHING in their adult life on their parents. My friend in high school, Ali, said, "I wasn't cuddled enough as a baby!" Even Josh blamed his adult failures on the fact that his dad is an alchoholic and was even worse when Josh was a kid. Its only been in the last two or three months that hes comING -present tense-to realize that he is his own person, seperate from DAD, and he needs to put those unhappy times and grudges against his dad for his alcoholism in the past and put those things behind him.I think its a huge responsibility on the parent not to screw up-but every single one of us is human, so we're going to screw up. And then that kid is going to hold it against you because it affects them more than it would affect another adult. Like if you forgot their birthday. Another adult is going to say "Eh, its okay. There will be another one next year. We can celebrate this weekend instead" but a kid will hate you the whole month or longer if you forget their birthday.
Tethra, have you asked your husband WHY he wants kids? Like bodine mentioned, is his biological clock ticking? Does he want to pass on his genes? Does he want someone he can hang out with and teach to fish and teach to drive a car? Does he feel like its the next step in life and he wants one because there's some social pressure he may not realize he's giving in to? The answers to those questions might shed more light on your situation and your husband may be open to adopting-something that wouldn't hurt you so much physically.
I feel *almost* as strongly as Kujacker about the kid thing. I’m every bit as devoted to my cats as she is to her ferrets. I’ve simply never had any maternal feelings whatsoever. Glad that my mom doesn’t like kids either, so there is no surprise that she won’t be getting grandkids. She prefers cats too-lol
Yes, we have examined the reasons for John’s want of kids. That was one of the things we examined in the marriage councelling. As I have made the decision, I will love whatever child comes along, and I am detirmined to raise them properly, just like my parents have done with me. It’s just not the choice I would have made if the kids issue wasn’t so important to him. I am becoming a little less against the idea because I have been examining it for a while now, and because it is *so, so* important to him, I will do it. Surrogacy isn’t an option as it is banned here, and adoption is so damn difficult in this country that very few people are successful. I do not want to have to deal with the ‘system’ over here anyway and have my life poked into and told what to do. I’ll grow my own! 🙂
Personally I do think people need to take more responsibility for their own failures in life. If your parents haven’t done anything drastically wrong and they have your best interests at heart, well, they were trying to do the best they could. I would be angry if our child came to John and I and blamed us for everything when we have done the best for them that we could. We are not perfect. When they are an adult, well they need to start working on themselves. My dad’s mum, told him his entire life that he wasn’t as good as his brother, and never really loved him. So dad always was trying to compete and needed a ‘mother’ really. It ended up wrecking my parents marriage. That is something I blame his parents for (as does he), but not when they simply did all they could.
Like you, I see people my own age and younger blame their failings on everyone but themselves. Yes this is due to how they are raised; moreso in the discipline department. I see this as a teacher all the time. The kids never have to take responsibility for anything (I’m talking age appropraite things), and if they are lazy or deliberately play up, it is always someone else’s fault, never theirs. So of course they will blame parents. That scapegoat is always there.
(The most extreme example of this I dealt with shows what I’m trying to say well). I had a 12yo student who never bothered turning up to lessons. I went to find him much more than I should have, and told him it was his responsibility to turn up. He had a timetable and I’m in the same place at the same time every week, so no excuse. So in the end I didn’t go to get him. I’m his clarinet teacher, not his nanny. Anyway, he got a bad report. His dad ranted at me for an hour with evey excuse under the sun, and also that his son was devastated blah, blah. I asked the father, that in the kid’s heart of hearts, did he really expect a good report after not showing up? No effort required, and you still come out smelling like roses? Not on my watch sunshine! He is old enough to turn up for lessons himself. What is going to happen when he gets to the workforce, “sorry, I forgot to come to work”. He’ll be shown the door. The head of music then said to me “it’s in your best interest to give the students a good report”. What!!!! When I was growing up if I got a bad report, it was my own fault and I had no one to blame but myself. So, I think it is this attitude that leads people to blame parents for their own failings. Anything but having to examine themselves. And this attitude helps no-one.
Parents are to blame for that attitude for never making their kids deal with age appropraite consequences. That is why I will make my kid do her homework rather then crying to the teacher excuse after excuse. My parents made me take responsibility for myself (they were always there for me though and helped me when I needed it; and they let me make mistakes) and I love and thank them for it. This is how my kids will be raised, with love and support but also teaching them to be their own person. If they blame us for that, then they need their heads read.
I have to say something though, your friend said that she wasn’t cuddled enough as a baby. How on earth would she know? Who remembers life as a baby? If her parents love her and she knows it, there should be no problems. I don’t remember being a baby (then again, my memory is bad…). Nothing against her, I’m just wondering! 🙂
oooh, I have typed another long post! Sorry everyone! *steps off soapbox* Rant over! 😀
Hannah-I kept thinking about your story all afternoon yesterday. That was super sweet of your brother. I think that he did something just to make her happy is a great sign he puts her wishes above his own and truly loves and cares for her. I don’t know her, but I’m sure shes the type of woman to see what he’s doing for her and in turn, be willing to make sacrifices for him through the years. “Well, I dont like baseball, but he loves it, so I’ll go with him. Maybe I’ll learn to like it”<–that kind of thing. I believe a relationship is give and take, and in the end, doing something you dont like can result in actually liking it. Like my awesome 4th grade teacher, Mrs.Zuluski said all the time, "Fake it till you feel it!"
She’s definitely that type of woman XD My brother and I are very big video game nerds, and although she hates (HATES) World of Warcraft, she understands that when he gets his “Matt time” she just has to do something else for a while. This is an example that may seem like a very little thing, but it’s something that she deals with weekly, and even though she hates it, she deals with it because she loves him and knows that sometimes he just needs time to do the things he wants to do.
I know this isn’t exactly what you were talking about, but it is definitely still a give and take, and funfact: relationships tend to be healthier when each of the partners has their OWN hobbies. By this, I mean things that you don’t do together. Everyone needs their own time to be themselves, and it’s been studied and proven that relationships last longer and are healthier when each partner does stuff for themselves without their partners! At first when I read that I was all “bwa?” and then after thinking about it, it totally makes sense! Spending little bits of time away from each other can strengthen your bond in the end.
I’m babbling again! I mainly wanted to say that although my brother married his wife for her own happiness, he was really and truly happy that they got married. Once they give me the go ahead, I’m going to post a picture or 2 of them on their wedding day – they didn’t have a wedding party, it was just the 2 of them walking down the aisle, so when it was time to see his bride for the first time in her dress there was a photographer there to take pictures. It’s seriously adorable, he opens the door and immediately starts crying (they both do!). Their happiness is palpable and it gets me every time – I’m misting just THINKING about it! XD In any case, you’re completely right – even though the idea didn’t appeal to him at first, once he got into it he got into it completely and now loves the fact that he got married 🙂
Edit: Got the go-ahead –
And all this from the guy that never understood the point of marriage. 🙂
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