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Okay so I sold a Westland Gifts Painted Trail of Ponies horse on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=190478790135&view=all&tid=0
after I stumbled upon some ended auctions and realized it was worth something. I thought I had the Westland Gifts box it came in but when I went to package it up, I realized THAT box in the closet was for another Painted Trail of Ponies horse I have in a different pose. There is a fitted styrofoam insert inside the Westland Gifts box, similar to the Windstone cardboard inserts.I spent several days looking for it, and with the holidays, it got shipped out a little later than I had originally intended. I marked the item as shipped and uploaded the tracking number. The next day the buyer files a “Item not as described” claim against me, and the item had not even arrived yet o.O She seems VERY mad that the item doesn’t come with the Westland gifts box and seems to think that its TOTALLY worthless without the box. I appologised for taking so long to get it shipped out, I appologised for not having the box when I thought I did, explained that I had moved recently and things are everywhere (and I have boxes everywhere too) and offered her a $5 refund to compensate for the missing Westland Gifts box.
She declined the offer and wants a full refund.
I can understand that in the collectable world, stupid things like a box or tag are important to some people in SOME cases when the box is for THAT SPECIFIC *one* piece-but these Westland boxes are just as generic as an Amethyst male dragon box-or less so, because the amethyst male dragon box is labled “Amethyst Male”-and even then you can put a ruby, white, emerald…any color male dragon in there to ship it.Personally I dont care about the boxes-they are just an added security for SHIPPING only and if you have to move. They are a convienance, not an item of value. But thats just me.
1-Why would someone want a full refund when the item hasn’t arrived?
2-Am I crazy? Is a box really worth more than $5 when the item inside the box is just going to sit on a shelf somewhere?I called ebay customer support and talked to a very nice guy (nice, ebay? GO figure!) who said he thinks it sounds like buyer’s remourse. I am afraid ebay will side with the buyer since the auction description said there was an “original box”…although on the other hand, if we’re getting technical here, define “original box”. I never said it had the Westland Gifts box, just an “original”. For all anyone knows, I could have received it in the box I shipped it in. That counds as “original”. *shrug*
And also, the “ITEM” being sold is/was the horse, not the box-so is it fair to say the ‘ITEM” is not as described when the “ITEM”, the Westland GIfts Painted Trail of Ponies is exactly as described and pictured?
The buyer was really nice until she opened the case, now she “Seems to yell a lot!!”
The ebay support guy said I should offer her a refund basically just to shut her up, and if I “HAVE TO” I will, I wont have a choice, but I dont feel I was in the wrong here. I posted lots of pictures and I put in the auction “No returns”. It seems like “No returns” means nothing on ebay. Why bother.
I guess if I found myself in this situation, where I’d done everything possible short of a refund, it’d be time to weigh options.
Option 1: Keep fighting it based on your selling policy stated in the auction (I can’t view it anymore so I can’t read what it said.) I think if I was in her situation I’d be able to compromise if I was refunded the value of the box. What would this have sold for without its box? If that difference is more than $5, she might take that offer.
Option 2: Refund her money, take the hit in your pocket, and move on from the hassle.
Option 3: Send her a final email saying you’ve tried working with her within your selling policy to come to a resolution amicably, but you can’t send a full refund, and take the hit on your feedback. You can always post your response under her feedback, with a explanation saying you tried everything you could to come to a suitable agreement. And if you haven’t left your seller’s feedback for her yet (I never do until I receive mine from the buyer), she’ll be less likely to leave nasty remarks knowing you have the power to similarly express your opinion in her feedback.
It depends on what’s worth it most to you. I don’t know how much the item sold for, so I don’t know what amount you’re dealing with here. I hope someone on here is a little more savvy with this sort of issue and can give you some better advice :scratch:
Whatever you decide to do, Wolfen, I wouldn’t give her a refund until the horse is back in your hands in the same condition it left your hands. I had something happen recently where the seller accidentally mixed up two packages. She contacted me before I even got my package to tell me it was the wrong thing and she would fix it when I receive the package. The seller was great….the person who received MY package, on the other hand, decided since it wasn’t what she wanted she smashed it before putting it back in the box (It was a large Happy Cat gargoyle). I don’t mean chipped it, they OBLITERATED it out of spite. Your buyer sounds like she would do something rotten like that just to get her money back.
If I was in your shoes, I would tell her I would give her a full refund AFTER the horse arrived back at my house in good condition, insure it if she has to.Unless she has it, she can’t possibly know if it’s not as described. However, I would say just refund her…but not till you get it back! Make sure it’s in the same shape you shipped it in, and try to resell it either with the “original” box (if you find it) or the substituted box.
I agree with what everyone’s said so far (and skeeter – oh my gosh, that story made me really mad/sad!! ><). Personally, I'm a person who fights for what I think is right. If I were you, I'd fight her on it – you have a no returns policy, the box really ISN'T worth that much, and you're very right about the "original" box thing – if it's the one that you got it in, then how would you know the difference? Also, if they are as generic looking as the ones that house Windstones for shipping, what's the big deal to her?
It really sounds like she’s just making a stink because she can. If it’s not worth the time and effort for you to rally back and forth about the item, then make sure – as has been said – that you get the item back in exactly the same condition that you sent it in before you send her a refund.
I’m sorry this happened to you 🙁 Unfortunately Ebay sides with the buyer more often than not, regardless of the situation, and it’s just stinky.
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Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!I never told the seller because it wasn’t her fault, I think she paid more in shipping to fix her error than I paid for the happy cat (I only paid around $20 for it). The cat had a few paint rubs when she shipped it, but when it arrived it’s entire right wing was shattered and all the paint on it’s back was scraped off (kinda like it had been thrown). I pieced it back together and filled in the cracks and missing pieces with a heavy clay and painted it to look like my cat, so it’s all good! Anyway, the moral of the story is there are some rotten people out there, don’t give her the chance to pull any more dirty tricks you. 😡 it’s people like that that ruined ebay for me.
Ah, I’ll have to find another link to the auction. The Painted trail of ponies sold for $70. It was retired in 2004 and it is numbered. Another worry I have is that the claim will get escalated and ebay/paypal will automatically refund her before she sends the item back-I’m dealing with another person who is giving me a headache (over something mudane as a piece of tape and ribbon-but to each their own. Life takes all types) and I got some message from ebay saying I have 48-72 hours to refund the buyer’s money, or they will side with the buyer-this is over a $45 item.
Also-those of you who have had problems with sellers-would you expect to be refunded shipping charges? Again, I feel that if the box/package arrived at the buyer’s doorstep with no problems, then the seller shouldn’t have to refund shipping charges. Those are not funds the seller pockets, those are spent shipping the item to the buyer-and on top of that, the buyer wants to be compensated to ship the item back to you? No way!-but thats just me. Im no expert.
I’m aweful with confrontation of any kind, and tend to avoid it at all costs-so this is fueling my anxiety and stress levels very high.
Thank you everyone for your input so far.
Boxes are very important to most collectors, from what I understand. For example, I collected Cherished Teddies for a while and they are almost worthless without their original box and papers. We won’t talk about market over saturation. Although in the model horse hobby (my main hobby) boxes matter little. I would say TOPP collectors are somewhere in between. I sold one of the rare Painted Ponies once without his box because I didn’t have it and he did go for less than the ones with boxes, but still enough for me.
I would refund and relist, but that’s me. And in the relist make it clear I don’t have the original box if I hadn’t found it by then.
As far as if you’ve already shipped it, I would see what she is willing to do for shipping costs. But the item, generic box or not, was not as described, so I would do a full refund and move on.
-- Angie
Did you get your item back already Wolfen? Make SURE that you get it back before you refund her money, and if Ebay is giving you an ultimatum where you don’t have the item back yet, contact them ASAP and tell them that you won’t refund her money until you get the package back! She is REQUIRED to send it back with a tracking # so that there is proof on both ends that you got the item. If Ebay is telling you otherwise, there’s something wrong.
As far as the shipping costs, it’s normal for you to refund the cost of shipping that she payed when she bought the item. The cost of shipping back to you, however, is on her dime.
I really hope you get this resolved 🙁 I’ve been in situations like this before and they’re not fun at all.
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Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!I agree with refunding, and with pegasus4240 that the item was not as described without the box.
WolfenMachine wrote:I realized THAT box in the closet was for another Painted Trail of Ponies horse I have in a different pose. There is a fitted styrofoam insert inside the Westland Gifts box, similar to the Windstone cardboard inserts…..
WolfenMachine wrote:although on the other hand, if we’re getting technical here, define “original box”. I never said it had the Westland Gifts box, just an “original”. For all anyone knows, I could have received it in the box I shipped it in. That counds as “original”. *shrug*
This will sound more harsh than it’s meant as I’m heading to work so I don’t have time to refine it, but that’s kind of not cool on your part. You know (since you just told us) and she knows (why she’s making a stink about it) the box isn’t the original. You know what original means to a collector. Just because the Ebay staff don’t doesn’t mean you should try to make her in the wrong on this.
From my experience, boxes matter to some people. She might not have bid on your auction if she knew there wasn’t a box. I don’t care about boxes, but when I’ve boughten collectible gifts off Ebay as presents (eg. Disney Classic Collections figurines for my sister in-law) I have passed on items without a box or bid higher on auctions when an original box was present.
If she’s being rude or tries to hold your piece for ransom, that sucks, but give her a chance to send it back before we declare the worst of her.
Wonder if it’s Trail of Painted Ponies collectors- maybe they collect boxes as much as statues. I just got a neutral from one who paid $11 for a retired limited run one WITH the original box, inserts etc. because the BOX wasn’t mint. The statue was an unwanted gift to my mom that had sat in a closet; it was never out of the box except to take the selling photo. It was six years old, the box had some wear, and I said so in the ad. They didn’t contact me or anything to see if I could make it right, just left it. (although what do they want for $11…) This is after waiting a week for payment. Sadly I had already left feedback.
Guess you just can’t call things ‘mint’ is the point, or even ‘good’. You never know when the other person is going to be much more exacting than you are.I hate to hear that you ended up in a situation like this Wolfen, but yes, sadly what caused it was not having the original box. Unfortunately you didn’t know things would become this escalated over it, but at least now you know for future sales. I know for me personally knowing the original box is available does determine if I want to make the purchase or not. The good thing is you are willing to correct the matter, now it is up to the buyer to be civil and understand that you realize where your mistake was.
Now another way to look at the situation, did you ship your package with insurance and Delivery Confirmation/Tracking? Because a possibility exists that she should could be trying to pull a scam in that she may already have it, but she’s acting like it didn’t arrive yet so she’ll have both the item and get her money back. It’s a scam that I’ve heard several other eBay sellers suffer from where dishonest buyers actually got away with it. I’m not going to say that is exactly what is happening here, but it certainly can’t be ruled out. Especially if this buyer escalates the issue and PayPal automatically refunds her money without you getting your item back. eBay does have its positives, but the complications can quickly outweigh the good considering what kind of transaction situation you could end up in. At this time there is much more buyer protection than there is seller protection. It never used to be this way, and I think that is when eBay started going down hill for a lot of folks. It’s one of the reasons why so many sellers have stopped using the site, not to mention the skyrocketing fees.
At any rate, do not give this buyer a refund until you receive your item back. If PayPal does it automatically without you getting your item there is nothing you can do about it, especially if she already has the item and is being dishonest about it. But if she does in fact receive it and is truthful, wait until you get it back in your hands in the same condition that you shipped it before sending the refund. Let the buyer know this. Tell her to double box with adequate packing materials and remind her that she needs to insure the package along with Delivery Confirmation/Tracking. If it arrives to you damaged notify eBay and the postal service.
Also, don’t leave the buyer feedback until she has left it for you, that way if she leaves negative you can share your side of the situation and how you tried to amend it. I no longer leave a buyer feedback until I receive it from them first, that way I can explain the truth if they make any false claims. I learned this back when a buyer tried to get me to refund their money blindly when they purchased a few of my prints and claimed the plastic wrap was glued shut to the print and damaged it. They wanted a refund without me seeing the “damage” and wouldn’t even send me a photo. I already knew they were lying, I have never glued a single one of my prints shut. Those particular print sleeves come with a strip of lightly adhesive tape to close the sleeve shut on the outside, and it was obvious that the buyer had touched the strip to the print as they were removing it from the sleeve. Rather than own up to their own mistake they decided to take it out on me instead and claim that the entire thing was glued shut. I told them to send the items back and I would either give them a full refund or send them new ones, whichever they would prefer I was completely open to accommodate them. But nothing was good enough for them, everything I offered to do to make amends they complained and declined. They sent me a number of censored messages, and rather than accept any offer I made for them they left me one star on every line trying to damage my 5 star rating. In short this buyer was completely off their rocker. I was willing to compensate even though it wasn’t my fault, and I still took the hit for it. Since then I just remove that part of the flap off so no one else could use it against me in case they made the same mistake. Anyhow I had already left the individual good feedback, but I went back and replied beneath it explaining what the buyer did after that fiasco. The point is let the buyer leave it first, that way if they leave negative you have more room to explain what you tried to do to correct the matter.
Lokie wrote:This will sound more harsh than it’s meant as I’m heading to work so I don’t have time to refine it, but that’s kind of not cool on your part. You know (since you just told us) and she knows (why she’s making a stink about it) the box isn’t the original. You know what original means to a collector. Just because the Ebay staff don’t doesn’t mean you should try to make her in the wrong on this.
From my experience, boxes matter to some people. She might not have bid on your auction if she knew there wasn’t a box. I don’t care about boxes, but when I’ve boughten collectible gifts off Ebay as presents (eg. Disney Classic Collections figurines for my sister in-law) I have passed on items without a box or bid higher on auctions when an original box was present.
True, but I have gotten…whats a nice way to put it…”the short straw” stuck to me from people in the past on small technicalities like this. So if one person is going to do it, its “fair game” so to speak. Its like owning a gun- for those that are against guns, and think its wrong to own one-that’s fine, but when someone breaks into your house or points one at you and demands money-you’re out of luck. Its like, if one person owns a gun, no one is safe-I hope that makes sense-my communications teacher made me realize how “un linked” my thoughts are when put down on “paper”. THEY MAKE SENSE IN MY HEAD! :p haha anyway….
An example of this that Im talking about is this: In 2009, I was going back to work from my lunch break. I made the wrong turn and needed to go east on one street when I was heading west. I pulled off onto a less busy street that was double wide so that cars could park on the street on both sides and there would still be room for someone to drive up the street and down the street.
I drive a bright red sedan and it was noon time and sunny. I went to make a U-Turn around a cement median, but I stopped first as another car was coming. There was no one behind me when I stopped. A truck entered this street Im on…mind you, my car is stopped. He hits me in the side and knocks my car into the other lane. He was a white haired man in a company truck-or at least he was some kind of contractor at work. He hit a non moving vehicle because he didn’t see me or was on the cell phone or something.
The insurance company said it was MY FAULT because I didn’t use my turning signal, even though when I commenced the turn, no one was behind me. AND I would think its common sense that two solid objects cannot pass through each other. There was over $3,600 worth of damage to my car.
So because of this, I use my turning signal at all times, no matter what.In reference to the ebay case, I did offer her a partial refund of $5. She came back and said she wanted $30 back on this $70+ item. I refused and told her she could return it for a refund of the auction value. Then she decided to keep it. 🙄 Good for me, but I wish she would ahve decided to keep it in the first place before opening the case.
Ugh. Well first off, I am glad that you got through that nasty ebay auction mildly unscathed.. it honestly seems like she was trying to take full advantage of the situation. I mean, $30? Seriously lady? *huff* Sorry, I just really REALLY hate it when people do things like that. I mean, sure, maybe the box was important to her, but surely it couldn’t have been worth nearly half of what she payed. *HUFF*! Still, glad that you only had to give up $5 for the mess 🙂
As far as the car accident goes – that’s just crazy. If I am understanding correctly, he T-boned you? As in, hit you in the side in a perpendicular fashion? (yeah thats worded weird, I didn’t know if “perpendicularly” was a word :lol:) If that’s the case, why would it even matter if your turn signal was on or not – if you were stopped, you were stopped! Did the insurance company side with him?
*rage* Insurance companies are evil! 👿 (sorry to anyone who may work for an insurance company!)
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