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WolfenMachine wrote:
Maybe if we started a “References” thread and anyone wanting to check up on a potential trade/sales partner could post “I’d like references on __________________” and those people that had dealt with the named person could PM the person requesting the info-that way it would be more private and might cut back any potential spiteful folks.Hmmm. The more often I read this, the more I like it. People would give a much more accurate response in private than when posting for all to see.
KoishiiKitty wrote:😳
Oh sheesh guys. I just try to do a good job.
I wanna see you paint, Koishii!!
😀
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Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!I’m sorry to hear you are going through that Poems. 🙁 I agree with what has been said here, good communication is important. Even if a piece is taking longer than initially projected due to unforeseen circumstances, family matters, etc. the seller needs to notify their buyer with continuous updates rather than ignore them with little to no contact at all. I’ve dealt with several instances like that myself where I wouldn’t receive a response for weeks, and it is a very frustrating situation to deal with. I sincerely hope it gets worked out for you soon! *Hugs tight*
I like the idea of references too. Would anyone be easily upset for others looking for references on them?
What would you do or how would you feel if you saw someone asking others for references on you after you were talking to said person about commission work or a sale?I think, in individual cases like this, where someone has ‘disappeared’ that it’s okay to say who it was, if nothing else than in hopes of getting them to respond. I just want to steer well clear of a ‘blacklist’ or any LIST that is formally associated with the forum.
I just have to warn you ahead of time that these things can get hairy, fast, and if it comes down to the other person coming in and things getting heated, all I ask is that it get taken back to a private format.Also as an aside, I know myself and many others will not take commission work where the client refuses to pay up front. A good compromise is a down payment to cover expenses on the artist’s part and as a good faith measure that the client intends to pay. From the other side of the coin, I cannot tell you how often I done work and had people not pay at the end. Since art is a livelihood for myself and many of my peers, this is just as harmful (even moreso, since the money lost in this case was needed for living costs) as having someone take your money and run. I encourage artists to have a clear cut “ToS” or terms of service/ terms of agreement / terms of commission / etc… clearly written out and agreed to by both parties so each knows what to expect. Down payments are a really good way to go.
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My art: featherdust.comI think references are a good idea. I wouldn’t have any problems with folks asking for references about me. 😀
twindragonsmum 😀
tdm
I’d actually be happy to hear someone asking for a reference on me – it shows that they are truly interested and serious about getting a piece of my work.
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Please visit My Webpage to see my art and PYO's that I've done in the past!I do not mind people ref’ing me, but I am really confident in my reputation.
If this is something that we are going to try thought, I do think it should be modded closely because we HAVE had people who claimed some was a bad dealer(in sales and in art commission) but it was not the whole story. Some of you may remember some of the nasty postings we have had with situations like that. It could be REALLY easy to ruin some ones reputation if information gets passed around that is one sided…I actualy kinda think that a good dealer list is better because very simply, if some one has NOT made a good repuation of selling anything, then you know you are taking a risk.Other then that minor concern, I have no problem with it.
Adding to what Jen said about payment up front, I agree. I do not do that my self very often but I do support it! I have purchased art from some lovely artists and I don’t bat an eyelash when they ask for an upfront payment.
If I have a commissioner I have not heard of or I have not done work for before, you bet I would ask for a partial up front payment.
Also, I have had more then one lovely person on here offer upfront partial payments when hiring me to do something 🙂 and I can not tell you how flattering that is, it is truely apreciated.I wouldn’t mind references at all. Then again, other than pieces that I’ve painted, then decided to sell, I’ve only done two commissions – both of which fell through. 🙁
One involved using high quality chalks I had to special purchase (no art stores near me carried them, or all of the shades I needed), purchased by me, that I couldn’t get to work, but they were expensive ($45 for the materials, and I haven’t had a use for them since), and the sculpt. Since I couldn’t use those specific chalks (they pooled oddly on the sculpt when sprayed, no matter what temperature or humidity, possibly due to the furred texture – pyo unicorn – versus a smooth/flat surface), the commissioner decided to not go further with the commission, as they wanted those specifically to be used, in case anything else wouldn’t be archival enough. Out materials and sculpt, but at least I was able to re-purpose it for myself (my fire nightmare).
Second instance I completed the commission, and the person disappeared from the forum and it’s been over a year and a half. I think they may have been Navy, so, I’ve been patient in waiting, but they should have been back or checked in by now. I do like the outcome of the commission, so I’ve just opted to keep him (amber wolf with green eyes), otherwise I would have just sold him at this point. I never asked for money upfront, trying to be trusting, but it’s left a bad taste in my mouth that now I require at least the cost of materials (if anything special is requested), and the cost of acquiring the pyo sculpt upfront, non-refundable, with the rest being due when work is complete and ready to be shipped. I’ve also painted a sculpt for a trade (one of my cheetah griffins), but the person never came through on their end (there have been issues since with that person and others here and they have since left the forum), so I ended up selling him eventually, but it took a while. I do take commissions and aim to please, but I really don’t feel that’s it’s fair to me to be out the cost of materials and a sculpt and many hours of work and research only to have the whole commission fall through. 🙁
I do share the same minor concern as Koishii. It should be monitored/modded closely to avoid hissing matches. :yes:
KoishiiKitty wrote:If this is something that we are going to try thought, I do think it should be modded closely because we HAVE had people who claimed some was a bad dealer(in sales and in art commission) but it was not the whole story. Some of you may remember some of the nasty postings we have had with situations like that. It could be REALLY easy to ruin some ones reputation if information gets passed around that is one sided…
I agree and that’s the other reason (other than legal issues) that I’ve always been extremely cautious about having any sort of ‘bad’ list. It’d be very easy for someone to falsely give someone else a bad mark, or even just say something in the heat of the moment when emotions are running high… You know what they say. Make someone happy and a few people might know about it. Make someone angry and the world knows about it…!!
It would be a hard thing to moderate, even for someone that is very objective, calm, and not involved. Because… they are not involved and it’s hard to know what really happened.
Quote:…I actualy kinda think that a good dealer list is better because very simply, if some one has NOT made a good repuation of selling anything, then you know you are taking a risk.
I agree here too and was hoping that in the end this would be all we need….
Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comIf it can not be modded very well, because you pointed out some very real issues with trying to do that, I honestly(and this is just my personal opinion here) feel it may be more of a land mine then a help.
I really like that quote, I have never heard of that one! But it is very true. When you consider also that we have had bad buyers as well as seller, it might be hard to tell what side is more credible in a reference list..it also might make some one feel unsettled if they are new and thier name suddenly appears in a public manner asking for into. At least with a good list or how ever it is called, you can be certain that both parties are reliable…I mean, I’ve never heard a buyer praise a seller( or vice versa) and the person getting praised say,” wait! I hated that transaction!!”
It does not mean that people can’t privately message some people on thier own and say,”have you had dealings with this person?” before doing biusness, and that way reputations are less likely to get blighted. I know I have done that when I have thought of purchasing, I contacted a few people who have proved reliable to me and asked if they had info and it really helped, but I also felt better that I was not passing bad info by privately inquiring too.
Kinda an additional thought..would a reference thread where people can ask for more info on other peoples reputation be too easy for people to comment in public in a way that could turn nasty? Even if you say private message only or no commenting, it might be hard for people not to start exchanging info publicly that is more personal opinion and could be damaging to reputation.
Trust me, I am all for protecting ones self as a buyer or a seller…but I would feel terrible seeing an innocent person get bashed, even if unintended, ya know?
These are just my personal thoughts on it though that I am tossing out there for thinking on.
Yeral wrote:I’d actually be happy to hear someone asking for a reference on me – it shows that they are truly interested and serious about getting a piece of my work.
It has been so busy lately that I have had no time for a public paint and stream. Things SHOULD be slowing down and I am looking at getting a new laptop in the next few months. I have enought pyo’s so when I get a week that is nice and calm I’ll post a stream and let every one know. 🙂
Referances wouldn’t bother me at all either, but I’m confident of my reputation as well. 🙂
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Dreamscape, Orion, Poison Dart, Fireberry, Spangler + Tigerberry DragonsLike Mark Twain said, ‘A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting its shoes on.” It has been bugging me lately (strange thing, I know-my communications class is making me *think* omg! lol) how true that is. People WANT to belive a lie, even if they know its not true.
There was a girl in my high school class (she was salutatorian too) who was so smart, and so quirky, she could tell you the moon is made of cheese and you’d start to doubt yourself “Well…I mean…its cold enough in space…I guess it could be…” You wanted to belive her. I’m certain she pulled a few tricks like that on people during her time there. It always seemed like she was giggling at the whole world under her breath. like “hehe you morons :)”
OK sorry to get off topic there.
I wouldn’t mind references either, I’m confident in my reputation here as well. 🙂 Whenever I post things for sale in the Flea Market I always ask anyone to check around if they’d like references. I’ve done business with quite a few people here and do everything I can do make it a positive experience. 🙂
Jennifer wrote:Also as an aside, I know myself and many others will not take commission work where the client refuses to pay up front. A good compromise is a down payment to cover expenses on the artist’s part and as a good faith measure that the client intends to pay. From the other side of the coin, I cannot tell you how often I done work and had people not pay at the end. Since art is a livelihood for myself and many of my peers, this is just as harmful (even moreso, since the money lost in this case was needed for living costs) as having someone take your money and run. I encourage artists to have a clear cut “ToS” or terms of service/ terms of agreement / terms of commission / etc… clearly written out and agreed to by both parties so each knows what to expect. Down payments are a really good way to go.
Excellent Advice Jennifer. Like you and many others I’m a self employed artist and rely on my sales to take care of living expenses. Having been burned multiple times in the past I no longer take on commissions without a down payment. It can be a matter of eating dinner or not if a buyer skips out on you once you’ve completed their piece and they have suddenly “changed their mind” or went MIA altogether, when all that time you could have been working on a piece that was already secured with money down. I’m not pointing fingers at anyone here as I’ve never run into that on the forum, I’m just speaking in generalities. It’s sad and unfortunate, but some people just don’t realize that even though we artists are painting/illustrating/creating to earn money, it’s still just as important and respectable as working for a corporate establishment.
KoishiiKitty wrote:I do not mind people ref’ing me, but I am really confident in my reputation.
If this is something that we are going to try thought, I do think it should be modded closely because we HAVE had people who claimed some was a bad dealer(in sales and in art commission) but it was not the whole story. Some of you may remember some of the nasty postings we have had with situations like that. It could be REALLY easy to ruin some ones reputation if information gets passed around that is one sided…I actualy kinda think that a good dealer list is better because very simply, if some one has NOT made a good repuation of selling anything, then you know you are taking a risk.I completely agree!
WolfenMachine wrote:Like Mark Twain said, ‘A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting its shoes on.” It has been bugging me lately (strange thing, I know-my communications class is making me *think* omg! lol) how true that is. People WANT to belive a lie, even if they know its not true.
Indeed, very well said WolfenMachine!
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