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Hi. I thought I would try to get advice before doing anything on a recent transaction that I had. I sold an item to another member. I gave the buyer the option of first class or priority mail. The buyer chose the first class option. Since the item was small and not very breakable (even Windstone sent it via first class when I bought it), I didn’t insure it. Since I packed it securely I figured there is no way it would break and thought it was safe with tracking information. Well, the item got lost which I never had even considered. I have repeatedly called USPS and opened several investigations into the matter but (short version) basically USPS was no real help. Since the buyer chose to send it via first class, there was no inherent insurance either. Looking at the tracking information, I have proof that I send the item (it got lost somewhere after the sorting facility). I offered to refund half the money since I obviously sent the item and the buyer chose the first class option so I felt we should suffer the loss together. However the buyer insists that I refund the entire amount. I’ve sold quite a few times to this buyer without a problem but now I don’t think it’s fair that I suffer the entire blow. Am I way off in this? Please let me know your advice as to how I should approach this situation.
How long has the package been lost? I’ve had my packages with USPS be missing more than a week then show up. If it’s been a long time, I’d say offering half her money back is fair considering you have proof you sent it and she picked the dicey shipping option
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DRAGONS: Male CoyoteHow long has the package been lost? I’ve had my packages with USPS be missing more than a week then show up. If it’s been a long time, I’d say offering half her money back is fair considering you have proof you sent it and she picked the dicey shipping option
I had this happen recently to me. I ordered an item from windstone using first class and a tracking number. I would check tracking and every day for almost two weeks it still said it was in Corvallis. It showed being there and then it was delivered to my house. No scans anywhere else. How long has it been?
It’s been about 2 and a half months at this point. :/ Post office says it’s officially lost after 90 days.
Id say offering half the money back is completely fair, and very generous of you in fact. You have proof you sent it, and they opted for cheaper shipping with no insurance. Thats the risk, and I think they should be grateful your offering half the money back. Its a touchy situation though I know…. 🙁
Yeah, that officially sounds lost. The offer of half is fair. Maybe only ship priority/insured from now on? I get that it’s more expensive but Windstones aren’t cheap! 😉
Seeking Test Paints & GBs ! Please get in touch if you'd trade/sell. I'll remove pieces from list by owner request
ANY Red Eyed Unis
ANY Test Paint Bat
UNIS:
The Purple/Yellow Baby Uni of Awesome
Male- Snow Leopard TP
White Lighting Male, Pony, Colt and Grand - I have Mom, Baby, & Young
Ponycorns: Golden Zebra and/or Spotted Skunk
Mother: Okapi
Gothic - Mahogany
PEGS: Male Midnight Calico, Male Bloodstone, Mother Starlight Rain
DRAGONS: Male CoyoteIf the postal people lost it, can’t they do anything to refund it or try to find it? If there is something wrong with purchaser’s address then in most cases it would be returned to the sender, so from the purchaser’s perspective it is more likely you will get it back they they will receive it. If it has been that long though then that is pretty unfortunate for both of you. I assume it wasn’t worth that much though? If not then I think a partial or full refund is a nice thing to do but I guess it depends how much money you are both out. I have about 100 pieces I have gotten in from the U.S. and I would say over 90% were shipped with first class mail and luckily nothing has ever gotten lost except one box that my neighbor apparently decided to take in for a week and then drop back on my doorstep. So for me I will probably still have things shipped with first class mail to save money but I can see the risks now.
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Imo if you had only offered first class and not a more secure option, it would be fair for you to pay all.
But as you offered the buyer the choice between first class and a more secure option, choosing the cheaper and less secure option was their call, and their risk.
Your only true obligations, were to pack it securely, communicate clearly, and ship it per your buyers request. To refund them half, is a nice gesture but not an obligation.
So, in your shoes, there are several options.
The first, is to do nothing. (IMO inadvisable) You filled your obligations, and did what you were legally responsible for. The main issue, is that old adage ‘Friends come and go, enemies accumulate’ And even if your buyer isn’t the grudge holding sort, well, it’s a small creek and burned bridges mar the scenery.
The second, is to refund half the money as you proposed. It’s more than fair, and if it causes a bridge to be burned, then it was a mighty rickety bridge to start with.
The third, is to refund more than half, but not all, aiming for a percentage that you and your buyer consider mutually unfair. This is immensely fair on an emotional level, but probably not too productive on a financial or peacemaking level.
The fourth, is to refund all. If you and your buyer have a very long-standing and mutually beneficial history of transactions, it might be worth doing. But if that were the case, they’d probably get the idea that them being out nothing, but you being out both money and Windstone due to their gamble on shipping, was unfair. Or if you’re inclined towards excessive generosity, or completely allergic to strife, you could refund for either of those reasons, but that has to do completely with personal preference, not fairness.
Pardon all this wordiness, but I kind of got inspired, as I was recently a buyer in a similar situation. I purchased a very fancy art book from a company smaller than Windstone, and they only offered Media Mail. The USPS ate my package, and after a month of checking the tracking, (and contacting USPS who were as useful as a manure flavored lollipop, I mean they got the wrong name on the form Email apology…) I contacted the company and while they had no obligation to, they sent out another book at no charge, via Priority. (and they have recently chosen to offer more reliable shipping options) There’s a bit of a difference, between my story and your buyers, as I didn’t have the Priority option to begin with. But with that being said, while I’m only one person with a limited budget, I’ll be looking out for that company’s wellbeing.
Don’t know how useful all this is, but there it is.
Hi. I thought I would try to get advice before doing anything on a recent transaction that I had. I sold an item to another member. I gave the buyer the option of first class or priority mail. The buyer chose the first class option. Since the item was small and not very breakable (even Windstone sent it via first class when I bought it), I didn’t insure it. Since I packed it securely I figured there is no way it would break and thought it was safe with tracking information. Well, the item got lost which I never had even considered. I have repeatedly called USPS and opened several investigations into the matter but (short version) basically USPS was no real help. Since the buyer chose to send it via first class, there was no inherent insurance either. Looking at the tracking information, I have proof that I send the item (it got lost somewhere after the sorting facility). I offered to refund half the money since I obviously sent the item and the buyer chose the first class option so I felt we should suffer the loss together. However the buyer insists that I refund the entire amount. I’ve sold quite a few times to this buyer without a problem but now I don’t think it’s fair that I suffer the entire blow. Am I way off in this? Please let me know your advice as to how I should approach this situation.
Sorry for the numpty questions, but they can influence the situation a little. Was this within the US or international? Sold privately or on Ebay? Paid with Paypal or another means of payment?
I’ve been on both ends of the situation, and you’ll find generally the seller holds the responsibility for the lost parcel (which is silly, because obviously it was the PO’s fault, but they won’t help). It isn’t really fair on either side, you lose out because your item never arrived, or the buyer loses out for paying for something they never receive. Since the seller is the one to pack label and ship, I assume this is why the responsibility normally falls on them. It would be good if you could do a half-half agreement, but if they end up filing a claim via Paypal (assuming they paid that way) they would likely win. Paypal’s Buyer Protection program requires you to show proof of ‘delivery’, not shipment.
If the sale was via Ebay, it’s probably tougher yet, that’s why a lot of stores on Ebay will ship with either insured or signed for, or they will refund lost items immediately as they budget the cost of not insuring into a ‘losses’ fund.
When you’re a private seller and things go wrong, it hurts a lot more, which is why I tend to think of tracking & insurance as something for my benefit when I’m mailing items I can’t afford to lose, I’m quite confident my parcels arrive 99.9% of the time so often, I don’t stress it.Did you offer the buyer an option to insure it (for the appropriate cost)? First class packages can be insured via USPS, domestically.
If so and they turned it down, I feel you are under no obligation. The shipping choice is up to the buyer.
If you didn’t, it’s a bit more tricky. I think your offer of splitting the loss seems fair, but it’s a tricky situation.Volunteer mod- I'm here to help! Email me for the best response: nambroth at gmail.com
My art: featherdust.comI had a package that was half of a trade to me get lost WITH insurance AND signature required. The card fell off after it was posted and the post office would not honor the claim despite the fact the shipper paid for both tracking and insurance because at some point they had a photo of the package without a signature card so it ‘wasn’t ever attached’.
The package was lost for 6 months or so I think. It finally showed up looking like it had gone through hell. Since the trade had long since been cancelled/refunded, I notified my trade partner and paid her for the item instead.
So… hope is not lost, it could still show up!
Also, USPS sucks.
For some clarity, the buyer bought it off a classified ad from the forum and paid via personal ‘friends’ paypal. I did not offer insurance because I didn’t think there was a chance that the item could be broken since it was a grab bag fat cat and not a more fragile dragon or unicorn. Since there was tracking I never thought that it could have gone missing especially since I’ve sent items to this buyer before. I offered either first class or priority (priority has some insurance built into it) and gave the quotes for each. I would have given insurance as well were it requested, but I didn’t give the quotes for that. She decided to use the first class option.
One thing to maybe look into is ask your post office if there is an Unknown Mail Delivery Office. We have one here in Canada, and any mail that has lost its address or whose address is no longer legible… or the address is unknown, plus the return address is missing, or the parcel gets wet, and the ink used sometimes runs and this ruins the address, or people wrap the parcel with paper that rips and gets torn off, along with the addresses….etc… well, these pieces that cannot be delivered go to this unknown mail delivery office.
Maybe you can put in an inquiry with them? They usually need a description of the contents etc. It may take awhile to investigate this, but if it leads to the Windstone being found, that would be good 🙂
For some clarity, the buyer bought it off a classified ad from the forum and paid via personal ‘friends’ paypal. I did not offer insurance because I didn’t think there was a chance that the item could be broken since it was a grab bag fat cat and not a more fragile dragon or unicorn. Since there was tracking I never thought that it could have gone missing especially since I’ve sent items to this buyer before. I offered either first class or priority (priority has some insurance built into it) and gave the quotes for each. I would have given insurance as well were it requested, but I didn’t give the quotes for that. She decided to use the first class option.
The type of shipping offered or chosen is irrelevant in case of a claim, however you said they made a ‘personal payment’ for the item, which means they are no longer covered by Paypal’s Buyer Protection policy: https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-claims-Archive/Dispute-or-claim-for-a-quot-Personal-quot-payment/td-p/72655
What you want to do with the transaction can only be negotiated personally now. Basically it’s up to you and your buyer.You have to get in touch with the Atlanta Mail Recovery Center. It is a royal pain in the you know what, but I have gotten several lost packages recovered from there. All “lost” articles end up there eventually and if they are there long enough unclaimed then they auction the items off and keep the money they raise. Nice huh?
You have to HAUNT them, but they will give you an online claims form and you need to provide the tracking and a picture of the item. I got a PYO Foo Pup recovered from there once. You have to google them because the USPS website doesn’t give you squat for contact info on them and they ASK USPS phone line is a complete waste of time.
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