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I once had to typeset and do the entire ready-to-print layout for a client not using Trafford and let me tell you THAT was a job, and worse was they only would pay me $50 for the entire thing…which at the time I thought would be ok but afterwards realized how much time I put in for it and all the tediousness that required. I was going to buy InDesign so I could convert my layouts for Trafford authors but realized then that Trafford would merely have to click “Print” and I wouldn’t get paid any more anyway so…yeah.
As for furry tails…if people don’t know the fursuitting business they will say it’s high priced but once they get into it and try getting prices for stuff, they soon realize it. They also become painfully aware of when they pay less than $500 for a full body fursuit the problems that cheap bad fur causes.
Oh yes! Buying quality is worth it. My very first costume suit I made was made from crap fur, and after just being worn once it looked nasty and manky! But my Drabbit suit, that I made only a few months later, is still nice and fluffy, after LOTS of wearing, because I got good fur for it.
I am said to be awfully underpricing (especially at cons), but then again it is pretty hard to find a right place to put your work, especially if you come in as a beginner. My commissions are pretty high charged though, roughly 30$ per hour, but if I make normal art I charge way less. usually I look at the result and material then add up some time (varies between short and fun infront of TV or the “sucker who never played along in color”).
Then again I am not, despite saying it, an official freelancer. I still go to school 5 days of the week.
I dont really count how much I make clean every year, only roughly over da thumb.
and, this is lame I know, but I still lack that self confidence. SOmetimes I wish I had more of that swiss gene often found by artists (no insult to anyone) like “whoa cool I painted a circle. fear me”.
and before every artshow (and also some auctions) where I have to hang works officially (when I can say my price directly face to face its better for me) I have hours of hmmm… to low…hmmm… to high. Then I go ask all people around me and always get that cool “dont know”. So, I charge lower automatically, the way that it will still work for me (remember, most of the stuff done infront of TV or school lessons)and yet not get people to “are you nuts”-me. In no way I wish to harm or put other artists in a bad light, its just sometimes very difficult to value your own work. Especially if you do not have a direct comparison, being a speedy artists makes this even harder.
But I do search feedback constantly on my works, price suggestions and critics are always very welcome. speak with me!
For example, Watergazers remark made me think on my aceos. Despite that I see them as that “in between school lessons” I am going to raise prices a bit on them. mhh…. coffe and croissant fee maybe 😉 (yes thats 7 bucks here)just some insight into my skull…
Yeah, it’s really hard to price stuff sometimes. I price things on this really rather complicated sliding scale that includes materials cost, time to make, how much I enjoy or hate making that particular item, and how much other people are charting for similar things. That’s why my feet cost as much as they do, even though they take less material than a tail, and don’t really take /that/ long to make. I hate making them! Feet are annoying.
I have a story someone once told me…
A very wealthy man loved roosters very much. He decided he wanted to commission an artist to draw him his ideal, most perfect rooster. He went to an artist that maybe wasn’t very well known but nevertheless, a good artist, and said to him, “I would like you to paint for me a rooster.”
The artist replied, “I would love to paint for you a rooster, but I do not know how, as I have never done this bird before. But I don’t reject business, so let me practice a while and then come back to me.”
Time went on, many months, and the commissioner still wanted his rooster; and remembering the artist he returned to him. When he walked into the studio this time he was amazed at the glory of all the rooster sketches, paint swatches, photos, and all manner of feathers lying around the artist. He went up to the artist and said, “Your roosters are amazing! How could you say you didn’t paint them well? I must commission you, so please do so now and give me your price.”
The artist set to work and made his most perfect rooster painting ever in a matter of a little while, scarce under an hour. The commissioner was pleased and then the artist gave him the painting and the price.
“That’s perposterous!” the commissioner stormed. “I just saw you paint that rooster in under an hour. It is beautiful, don’t get me wrong, but I will not pay so much when it only took you just a little while to do.”
To this the artist replied, “But sir, I have worked for a long time on your rooster, as you can see by my studio filled with sketches and paintings. You are paying for my time of learning to draw your rooster to this level of perfection, not just for the time it took to draw one rooster.”
Well, even when InDesign files arrive it was rarely as simple as just clicking ‘Print.’ We’d have to spend a minimum of several hours or so on every file, laid out or not. There’s usually always something that needs fixing unless the person is a professional design/production artist (and even then, that’s no guarantee). I’ve seen some positively terrifying stuff even from fellow ‘professionals.’ Wrong font types, wrong margins, wrong book size, wrong file formats, corrupt files… *shudder*
But cripes… they wanted to pay $50 for a layout?? 😯 Takes hours to do a book design and layout correctly. And then there’s all the endless revisions. *LOL* Don’t they realise that’s why people (including Trafford) charge hundreds or even thousands of dollars for design and layout? It’s a professional skilled trade that needs years of education and training to do it right and save them money by avoiding costly errors. Honestly, they just don’t get it…
I’d love to do fursuits myself, but I think I need more free time to learn it and hone my sewing skills. Trying to do design and layout well is hard and time-consuming enough. 😉
Edit: Whoops, I’m falling behind! *LOL* Sorry.
Watergazer’s story and the concept of time-based charging brings up another good point…
If you produce high quality AND are speedier than everyone else, why should you be penalised for being more efficient? You are being paid for the amount of work you do and the talent it takes, not how long it takes (in that case, might as well take forever at it and really rake in the bucks!). Businesses charge more for rush jobs; for getting the same exact job done more quickly. And it’s touted as a way to become more profitable at what you do: by always charging a flat-rate but getting faster at doing the job so you have more time to do more jobs.
Time does not necessarily equate to talent required.
Plus people don’t often see art as a real job…or a job worth paying that kind of money for. They may want quality, but you seldom can have speed and quality and a low cost at the same time…something’s going to be lacking among those three issues if you do. But you don’t always get business from ignorant people, so that’s a good thing. But when you do get somebody like that…they make your life an utter living hell..and trust me, I know.
What’s worse is when the media makes something look easy… like it’s all automated these days!
“Hey, you can’t fool me, I saw that episode of X-Files! You just gotta click a button and POOF—instant photo merge!”
Lol, one published wanted to hire me on as their sole artist and was outraged I’d charge more than $500 per book because “all I have to do is draw it once and have the computer move the character and limbs around.” Needless to say I didn’t take THAT job, and boy was the woman angry…but let her try to hire someone else for $500 or less an entire book.
Watergazer wrote:Lol, one published wanted to hire me on as their sole artist and was outraged I’d charge more than $500 per book because “all I have to do is draw it once and have the computer move the character and limbs around.” Needless to say I didn’t take THAT job, and boy was the woman angry…but let her try to hire someone else for $500 or less an entire book.
so you dont have that programme then, huh? shame on you 😉 tsk tsk
I’m even better, I have a magical spell for that, its Swish and Poke and “Marchus”.DigitalDragon:
quality…thats the point, done on your lap infront of the TV is not what I would consider high quality :/
especially because I dont do big pre-studies (time thing problem) :/
well, anyhow, after a few sales where I started low and it went up I have a bit more instinct training on my prices, specifically the 3Ds. With the time you get closer to a real “buy for art” and not “bargain” but still, subject and time of the year are my worst enemies. Pricewise.Watergazer wrote:Lol, one published wanted to hire me on as their sole artist and was outraged I’d charge more than $500 per book because “all I have to do is draw it once and have the computer move the character and limbs around.” Needless to say I didn’t take THAT job, and boy was the woman angry…but let her try to hire someone else for $500 or less an entire book.
Hey that’s a damn GOOD price, and pretty average for low-end providers who want to offer a good deal (just layout, not art though). That’s just sad… I’m glad you refused! *LOL* Let her get mad. Those intimidation tactics shouldn’t be used to get their way…
Akeyla wrote:DigitalDragon:
quality…thats the point, done on your lap infront of the TV is not what I would consider high quality :/
especially because I dont do big pre-studies (time thing problem) :/
well, anyhow, after a few sales where I started low and it went up I have a bit more instinct training on my prices, specifically the 3Ds. With the time you get closer to a real “buy for art” and not “bargain” but still, subject and time of the year are my worst enemies. Pricewise.On the contrary… you could paint and draw these things sitting naked upside down in an old cardboard box while singing show tunes, and it wouldn’t matter, so long as the end result looks good. Quality isn’t how you get there, it’s what you end up with. ^_-
That said, ‘ketchup on cocktail napkin while I was at the pub’ as a technique, say, might be pushing the art quality envelope a little far…
Watergazer wrote:I do plan to make more moving tail kitsune cards…just haven’t been able to put the extra time in while painting Windstones Too. Moving parts cards always take much longer to do, though I do plan to do more and also make moving prints of the ones I already did. So if you’d like prints, Lamortefille, just let me know in the meantime.
Also, yes I have made some decent money on cards when you look at it as a lump sum of extra funds, especially when people buy more than one (Thanks Ski!) and I can save on the shipping…when the post office isn’t a jerk. Sorry Ski, I need to re-ship your cards because I didn’t put enough postage on apparently. I know it seems like a minor thing, but it normally takes me about 2-3 hours for these cards each, and almost double that for anything that moves or is especially detailed, so I try to get a profit of at least $8 on any card priced $10 for sale, $12 for anything priced $15, etc. At the end of figuring all this out, I realize I can be doing better things with my time by painting more Windstones, and saving more of my original cards to sell direct to people at a convention where I don’t have to ship or loose money to EBay.
Maybe I just seem greedy but I’ve come to realize I’ve really been putting myself out there and not taking into consideration what I should sell for. I’ve always been the type of artist that would take whatever money I could get even if it means $3 or less per hour but I really decided that this year I would try to be more professional and not sell myself short like that. I really have to gear myself towards areas where I can make at least minimum wage. That’s my OTHER goal for the year…to make at least minimum wage off art. And if I cannot meet that seemingly simple task, to go find a job somewhere and just do art as a hobby. This is my deciding year. It’s really scary for me, but it is what it is.
I won’t be stopping making the cards by any means, but I won’t do them every day when I could be doing something more lucrative. I’ll do the cards on days I don’t feel like painting and spend more time making more moving part cards and not focus so much on quantity.
The post office really got to me when Ski’s cards came back at me. I re-evaluated everything. The holders I put them in don’t cost much since I bought them all in super bulk…so like 5 cents each…and they are awesome nice holders but I guess they weigh more than the post office would like, so I can only ship one of those in an envelope, not two or more, for the standard postage weight. What gives! I sure won’t skimp on those holders though. And to think USPS will be raising its rates yet again soon…
But if anybosy wants to try making cards to sell, please do! Making the cards is really fun to do on the side and can give you some extra pocket change if you don’t mind what the cards go for or don’t have a set goal or anything, lol. SO give it a shot. Tons of artists sell cards on Ebay.
Wow, that got long-winded…sorry guys.
You have to be a little greedy to get what you need, it’s the way of the world. I don’t complain when my artists want more money. I raise the price.
If customers say anything I tell them that artists are entitled to upward mobility as much as anyone,
(actually more), No artist should ever starve.
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