A Word about Repaints and OOAKs on PYOs

[Watergazer]

I have been asked a few times to redo paint jobs that I’ve sold before, and for the most part I’m fine with that…but I’ve decided to limit this, because it’s not fair to someone who buys the original on ebay for over $150+ and then somebody else commissions for the same thing for less $$.

From now on I will limit any repainted pieces of mine to only 3 (with the exception of the autumn wolf, which will be 4 only because I’m making a gift version for someone as well as the current ones I have going for trades and/or commissions). That’s 3 INCLUDING the original version. All repainted paint jobs will be numbered then, 2 or 3 while the original remains unmarked.

OOAK to me means anything done by hand, not that a paint style is never ever going to be reproduced the same way. Perhaps I need to say that on my auctions a little more clearly. I think it’s fair enough though, and of course no personal commissions of characters, specific styles of paint laydown, or pets will be reproduced ever.

I just wanted to clearify a little and also give some of you hope if you wanted a certain paint job of mine but missed it on ebay the first time around.

[Watergazer]

[Alyssa]

This sounds like a good idea, but I think more people would see it in the PYO category (maybe in the sticky commission thread).

[mipa]

Technically OOAK means One Of A Kind– so I wouldn’t put OOAK and then paint more than one… especially for those who aren’t on the forum who may purchase one of your pieces.

(sorry I am deleting the middle of this because I didn’t like the way it read– sorry!)

mipa

[SPark]

?

I’m not sure I get the argument here.

If an artist who hasn’t previously done Windstones finds them, and loves them, and wants to paint them and make money doing so, this is bad?

All of us, at some point, were not Windstone people. Then we found them, and became Windstone people. Why not spread it further? I would think that the more popular they become, the better, for us artists and for Windstone itself!

[sunhawk]

mipa wrote:

Technically OOAK means One Of A Kind– so I wouldn’t put OOAK and then paint more than one… especially for those who aren’t on the forum who may purchase one of your pieces.

If they are done by hand, generally it’s almost impossible to do two art objects that are identical. For instance, I recently painted two gryphons in the same colouration but they ended up subtly different, enough so that I gave them different names in my gallery. So in a sense, they ARE OOAK, even if it’s hard to see the differences.

(editted my reply to the second half of the pose, no harm done Mipa ^_^)

[mipa]

sunhawk wrote:

If they are done by hand, generally it’s almost impossible to do two art objects that are identical. For instance, I recently painted two gryphons in the same colouration but they ended up subtly different, enough so that I gave them different names in my gallery. So in a sense, they ARE OOAK, even if it’s hard to see the differences.

Yes you could say that about any piece of art– but to me– OOAK means you are only painting one… not two that are slightly different because they are hand painted… ONE of a kind. If I bought something on ebay and it said OOAK and then I saw the same thing painted again I would be very upset– especially if I paid $100 for it to be the only one.
Plus I believe he/she was talking about specifically trying to reproduce the same piece 2 or 3 times… which to me would definatly NOT be OOAK.

Quote:

I don’t agree with this idea, that we will sell better if there are less PYOs out there. Everyone has their own taste and I’ve not seen a PYO yet that personally caught my eye to buy, and it didn’t matter that there were two or ten of them. Since the PYOs are highly individualized, I think there is room for many more people and for people to still get what they want. And who are we to judge why people buy and paint PYOs? How do you propose to judge whether someone loves Windstones? It doesn’t necessarily follow that people who paint a larger number of PYOs for profit don’t love Windstone.

I withdrew the statement you are refering to– I would rather not be judged based on this statement. All I know is for a collector it is great when there is 1000 things to choose from– but as an artist it makes it MUCH harder to sell pieces when you have that much competition. That was all I was trying to say.
mipa
I am sorry if I offended– I didn’t mean to. 😳

[sunhawk]

mipa wrote:

Yes you could say that about any piece of art– but to me– OOAK means you are only painting one… not two that are slightly different because they are hand painted… ONE of a kind. If I bought something on ebay and it said OOAK and then I saw the same thing painted again I would be very upset– especially if I paid $100 for it to be the only one.
Plus I believe he/she was talking about specifically trying to reproduce the same piece 2 or 3 times… which to me would definatly NOT be OOAK.

In that context, I can see what you mean. I think the problem lies in clarifying – what does OOAK mean on ebay, does it refer to handmade goods that are not mass-produced or does it refer to any item that has no other artifact that looks identical or near so? I think it’s easy to get muddled because it’s possible to paint something in a similiar colouration/pattern to an already-existing piece. Say, if one of us did a bluejay-based PYO and then did another one that also obviously referenced a blue jay but was not identical to the first blue-jay piece. If the artist called them both OOAK, would you dispute that?

Quote:

I withdrew the statement you are refering to– I would rather not be judged based on this statement. All I know is for a collector it is great when there is 1000 things to choose from– but as an artist it makes it MUCH harder to sell pieces when you have that much competition. That was all I was trying to say.
mipa
I am sorry if I offended– I didn’t mean to. 😳

I noticed that and I’ve removed that part and my reply from my original reply, no hard feelings ^_^ I just think it’s not necessarily going to be possible to keep PYOs “in the family” so to speak without actively discouraging people from buying them, which I doubt Windstone would want any of us to do.

[mipa]

sunhawk wrote:

In that context, I can see what you mean. I think the problem lies in clarifying – what does OOAK mean on ebay, does it refer to handmade goods that are not mass-produced or does it refer to any item that has no other artifact that looks identical or near so? I think it’s easy to get muddled because it’s possible to paint something in a similiar colouration/pattern to an already-existing piece. Say, if one of us did a bluejay-based PYO and then did another one that also obviously referenced a blue jay but was not identical to the first blue-jay piece. If the artist called them both OOAK, would you dispute that?

I guess not- like a male female etc… or even vastly different but still blue jay– but I thought what the OP was talking about was purposly making 2-3 of the same piece- or as close to the same as they could get. To me that wouldn’t be ooak- because they are making 2 or 3.

Quote:

I noticed that and I’ve removed that part and my reply from my original reply, no hard feelings ^_^ I just think it’s not necessarily going to be possible to keep PYOs “in the family” so to speak without actively discouraging people from buying them, which I doubt Windstone would want any of us to do.

NO- I would never want to discourage people!! Geeze! I guess I like knowing all the artists and the feeling like it is a family of sorts. I need to keep my big mouth shut! I didn’t mean it to sound the way it did- thanks for taking that out for me!
mipa

[sunhawk]

mipa wrote:

I guess not- like a male female etc… or even vastly different but still blue jay– but I thought what the OP was talking about was purposly making 2-3 of the same piece- or as close to the same as they could get. To me that wouldn’t be ooak- because they are making 2 or 3.

*rereads the OP* It does appear Watergazer is saying that and I do agree that doing an exact copy (or trying to do so) does defeat the purpose of calling something OOAK and would be misleading to put in one’s auction unless Watergazer *does* explain her definition of OOAK in the auction.

Quote:

NO- I would never want to discourage people!! Geeze! I guess I like knowing all the artists and the feeling like it is a family of sorts. I need to keep my big mouth shut! I didn’t mean it to sound the way it did- thanks for taking that out for me!
mipa

I understand what you mean, I didn’t mean to suggest you wanted to actively discourage anyone, I just think it *may* not be possible to keep the group of PYO painters small and not all PYO painters are going to be interested in being a part of our fandom community in terms of posting here and getting involved ^_^ I think a natural equilibrium will come about eventually because I think Windstones are too expensive and aimed at what is already a diverse subculture (ie fantasy fans) to become a fad, so I don’t think we need to worry too much about the fandom suddenly becoming mainstream and us getting flooded with bandwagon types 😉 And no problem about my edit, incidently. We all make errors now and then when trying to communicate, myself included! LOL

[Skigod377]

I can see what Water is saying. I have stopped/will stop using the term OOAK in my auctions. I feel its impossible to make two exactly alike, so I would call them OOAK. I can understand how that would be misleading, though. I will just not use the term so I can avoid it. I do, however, think that paint jobs that look really good should be able to be copied. Some I have seen are so lovely that it would just be a shame if there were not more than one. I DO know how impossible it is to make two look the same, though. I have tried. I can see what you mean, though… technically then, thinking like this, ALL Windstones are OOAK since they are ALL a little different.

[Watergazer]

My background as a 2d and 3D artist is really what made me do the OOAK thing but I can see where there’s be a problem with the text, so on future auctions I won’t list that, I’ll say something else I guess. I wouldn’t actually sell two pieces on ebay that were the same color…what I meant to say is that I’d sell the original on ebay…and then if somewhere down the line someone wants another, I’d do that.

I know some probably have issues with that, but for it’s it not really different than making prints of 2D artwork, with the original having costed more to sell anyway, but everyone else still able to get art like that…kinda. I know it’s not exactly the same since a machine produces exact prints and a repaint is still done by hand. This is where my OOAK comes from. As a former seller of hand-made clay figurines, and seeing other clay makers auctions, we all listed an item as OOAK even if we made say, 10 cats holding a heart all the same color clay and same pose…OOAK because even though there are replicas, the replicas are hand made and each unique unto itself…like painting a Windstone, no paint job can ever be the same.

But I will remove the OOAK on future auctions. I can’t now because I got bids and it won’t let me change the title now.

I don’t know what earlier removed posts said…I hjust got to read all this right now, but I do love and adore Windstones and it still boggles my mind that Melody made an entire line just for custom painters. Not even MLP or Breyer has done that specifically, yet they are a couple of the largest custom painted models out there. I do paint Windstone for profit since I do art for a living and go where the money tells me, but it doesn’t mean I don’t respect Windstone. It’s just that as an artist trying to pay bills, I try not to limit my options too much, so if 2 other people want the frog dragon, for example, without changes to the color scheme, I would do them on commission for them, and just number them, but still limit any reproduced paint job to 3 sole owners. Does that hurt the original in it’s value? I don’t really think so. I mean, to me they are all still hand-made originals.

[sunhawk]

Watergazer wrote:

My background as a 2d and 3D artist is really what made me do the OOAK thing but I can see where there’s be a problem with the text, so on future auctions I won’t list that, I’ll say something else I guess. I wouldn’t actually sell two pieces on ebay that were the same color…what I meant to say is that I’d sell the original on ebay…and then if somewhere down the line someone wants another, I’d do that.

I know some probably have issues with that, but for it’s it not really different than making prints of 2D artwork, with the original having costed more to sell anyway, but everyone else still able to get art like that…kinda. I know it’s not exactly the same since a machine produces exact prints and a repaint is still done by hand. This is where my OOAK comes from. As a former seller of hand-made clay figurines, and seeing other clay makers auctions, we all listed an item as OOAK even if we made say, 10 cats holding a heart all the same color clay and same pose…OOAK because even though there are replicas, the replicas are hand made and each unique unto itself…like painting a Windstone, no paint job can ever be the same.

But I will remove the OOAK on future auctions. I can’t now because I got bids and it won’t let me change the title now.

I don’t know what earlier removed posts said…I hjust got to read all this right now, but I do love and adore Windstones and it still boggles my mind that Melody made an entire line just for custom painters. Not even MLP or Breyer has done that specifically, yet they are a couple of the largest custom painted models out there. I do paint Windstone for profit since I do art for a living and go where the money tells me, but it doesn’t mean I don’t respect Windstone. It’s just that as an artist trying to pay bills, I try not to limit my options too much, so if 2 other people want the frog dragon, for example, without changes to the color scheme, I would do them on commission for them, and just number them, but still limit any reproduced paint job to 3 sole owners. Does that hurt the original in it’s value? I don’t really think so. I mean, to me they are all still hand-made originals.

I understand why you call them OOAK, I think Mipa was just trying to explain that on Ebay, the term has a fairly specific meaning in terms of auction shorthand, especially in the titles of auctions with their limited space ^_^

Don’t worry about what Mipa editted out, it wasn’t about you ^_^ It was a more general to all PYOs, she just phrased herself in a way she didn’t mean to.

[lamortefille]

I’m going to put my 2 cents in here. I have three lovely pieces done by Watergazer and if someone else likes them enough to commission another one from her, I have no problem with it. I paid her what they were worth to me and hopefully the prices for the new commission will be in line with what I paid, for Water’s sake. drag0nfeathers is going to do a Diablo Griffin for me and a Diablo Dragon for Arlla (I think that’s what I read), so Arlla and I will have two each. I’m excited to have work from each of these ladies and it doesn’t matter to me if they are strictly OOAK or not.

[mipa]

absolutly do more than one– it is totally up to you as an artist– at the same time I would tell people that in the auction because you don’t want to get sued/in trouble with ebay because you said OOAK and then made three. Thankfully it seems some of your buyers don’t care if you do more than one– which is great!

I think the OP wanted to explain they would be doing up to 3 of each piece– thats great– but IMO you need to put that in the auctions so people know. Many people probably won’t care- some may- you just dont know. Many people do ooak fairys and ponies etc and mean only one– never another even close in resemblance. In your auctions you could put #1 of 3 etc. and then number them on the bottom 001/003, 002/003, 003/003.

mipa

[Author]

Posts